How to get help

[Atash Hagmahani]

First, we need to review the scenario:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/kitty_genovese/1.html

Kitty Genovese was murdered in front of something like 38 witnesses. It is a notorious story that headlined in the New York Times. The scenario is that in a crowd, nobody will do anything, because everybody is waiting for "everybody else" to do something.

It is the opposite scenario from the riot mob, where people will do outrageous things because they feel like part of a group and "everyone" else is behaving outrageously.

The Kitty Genovese scenario also happens during medical emergencies. Every once in a while someone has a heart attack on the New York subways, nobody responds to his/her distress, and commuters step over the body for hours.

I've been reading a new book, which explains these scenarios, which I sort of knew about but not in much depth. Here is the recommended solution, if you are having an emergency in a crowd:

"Hey, you in the blue shirt! I need your help because I'm having a heart attack!"

Single someone out. Tell him or her what you want and why.

[magicHandPuppet]

That sounds like very good advice, summed up nicely.  Thanks!

[Dame]

Also, keep your eyes open for others in obvious distress and ask them.  Most people will respond truthfully.  Once this happens I have never had a bystander refuse to assist me in providing needed aid.

[Rusty Shackelford]

Helping people depends on what and why.  For someone in physical distress i.e., heart attack, the answer is easy - call for 911 and do what you can.

On the Kitty situation, it is entirely different.  I frequently carry a weapon using Washington States Concealed Carry Statute.  Now the Statute is pretty broad about who can carry and when, and does not require any training.  However, I have had some training.  The first thing they stress is YOU ARE NOT A COP.  YOU ARE NOT A HERO.  The Statute does offer some protection, but it is limited.  If you get involved in a situation where you may come under attack, and use your weapon YOU WILL BE HELD CRIMINALLY LIABLE.  Even if you escape criminal charges, very frequently you will have CIVIL CHARGES FILED AGAINST YOU.  The average cost of civil trial is about $250K.  You have to make the determination - do I put my freedom and the financial security of my family at risk for someone I don't know?  Since you really do not know what is going on, what happens if you make the wrong decision?  Very few people are really prepared for these situations - even those with training.  I know I'm not.  In these situations, if it is someone outside of your immediate group, your best option is to withdraw and call the police.  From a safe vantage point, observe and remember facts that may be useful to the police later.

[Dame]

On the few occasions where an active assault is in progress, I have only had one experience where Stop That! in an authoratative voice and a loud Call the police! to a specific onlooker has not worked.  On the one occassion where it did not work security showed up in short order.

On most occassions assistance rather than intervention is called for and does not present any physical danger to the passers by, mearly inconvenience. 

[eaglemedic]

Wow, some people have totally missed the point!

[Lady Lilya]

Every once in a while someone has a heart attack on the New York subways, nobody responds to his/her distress, and commuters step over the body for hours.

I find this very hard to believe.  I always find people in the subways very helpful. If they left a person alone for hours, they probably thought he was sleeping.  But at the time that he was in obvious distress, someone would have gotten help.  I've seen it happen.  And usually too many people are trying to help and I worry that the person is getting overwhelmed and not enough breathing space. 

Once I was on a train and someone passed out.  She was in a seat (as opposed to standing where it would have been more obvious) and at first the people next to her weren't sure.  So they tried to wake her up.  When that wouldn't work, they sent someone to the 3rd car where there is always a conductor.  In the mean time, someone suggested to look in her purse for any medication that might give a clue about her having a medical condition.  The conductor came, and at the next stop they held the train, and some police officers were waiting to help her off the train and bring her to the emergency room.  By this time she was conscious, but looked very out-of-it.

I've also been on a train or bus where someone said outloud that they weren't feeling well.  Everybody responded.  (And then of course there was the time that someone wasn't feeling well on the express bus while it was on the highway.  We were about 2 or 3 minutes from the toll plaza just before the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel, where there are lots of police often.  But instead of driving 2 or 3 more minutes, the driver pulled over to the side of the highway.  It took about half an hour for a police car to get to us and pick up the sick passenger.  The driver insisted that it was the policy.  We was not allowed to drive another 2 minutes, even though it would have meant the person got attention half an hour sooner.)

It is really hard for me to imagine NYers acting like the media-portrayals of them.  Walking on the street, if someone looks even slightly confused or lost, people ask them if they need help. 

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Of course it is a different issue entirely if helping a person comes at risk to yourself.  I can see people avoiding getting involved when something violent is occurring, out of fear for themselves.  But everyone would call 911.  (NYers operate under the assumption that if more people call 911, they will arrive faster.)

[Lady Lilya]

Eagle, we got the point: single someone out while asking for help.

But we are still going to talk about it.  :)