Buckets and vacuum

[oscar615]

This is what I am thinking.  I don't have the cash at the moment to buy mylar bags and oxy absorbers.   I am thinking of putting my grains etc. directly in the bucket, drilling a little hole in the lid.  Putting a piece of plastic tape over the hole, then drawing a vacuum into the bucket.  Then sealing the hole, tape and all with a two part epoxy.  Could use either five or thirty minute epoxy.

So, I guess my question is will the gasketed lids hold a vacuum? I hope they will.

If not how about putting a bead of silicon onto the gasket, snap it onto the bucket, letting it dry and then pulling the vacuum as described above?  Any thoughts?

[opsec]

   The gasket will indeed hold a vaccuum, however, that will cause the sides of the bucket to deform inwards (which is a non-issue). What is an issue is the fact that the plastic that the bucket is made of allows oxygen to pass through it. The vaccuum inside the bucket will draw oxygen into the bucket over time. That is the primary purpose of the mylar bags, they are an oxygen barrier.
    This cloud does have a silver lining however. Rice and beans will store just fine for several years in a bucket without a liner. All you would need to do in this case in invest a couple of dollars in some dry ice and use that to flush the oxygen out of the bucket before sealing it up.
    What exactly are you planning on storing?

[Ryder]

Recycled buckets, sealer on the lid, brown paper bags to seperate the food products from the plastic. Cover with layers of plastic and at least 8 inches of dirt. It will even survive a forest fire.I have done it in a dry climate. Do it now, if it doesn't last for 20 years big deal. At least you will eat next winter.

[oscar615]

OPsec: I did not realize that these food grade bucket would pass oxygen through them.  So if that is the case, even with CO2, wouldn't that happen over time?  And what type of business sells dry ice?  Would a grocery store?  Safeway or King Soopers (Citimart)?  I would be willing to try that as I doubt it can be as expensive as mylar bags.

I will be storing rice and beans, maybe some dried herbs and spices, after I get a bunch of dried staples.  It seems I have heard that clay pots from the egyptions have been found and grwon after thoushands of years.  Probably don't need the vacumm. So I guess if you can keep the grains dry they will probably be ok.  I am just trying to extend the shelf life even longer than what would normally be attainable.  So the dry ice sounds like a good idea.

Ryder:  what is the purpose of seperating the food from the plastic with the brown paper bags?

[Dame]

Grain storage:  I am just a little confused over the grain storage issue.  I grew up on a grain farm and the stuff stores just fine for three or four years at least in metal, wood, ceramic, even concrete or plastic as long as it is dry and dark and the moisture content is low enough when it is put away.  Whole grains need protection from moisture, light, rodents and insects.  The insect problem can generally be solved by moving it from one container to another every year or two if there is evidence of live something in it.

The ancients do not appear to have had a storage problem for at least 7 years of storage if you follow the Joseph, Visor of Egypt (a tropical country) story.  And then reason would have it that what was left was planted and did just fine.  Personal experience suggests the germination rate will reduce a little (20-30%) after 3 or 4 years, so plant a little heavier to compensate.

I would be saving the mylar for foods with air soluble vitamins, primarily Vitamin C.

[opsec]

OPsec: I did not realize that these food grade bucket would pass oxygen through them.  So if that is the case, even with CO2, wouldn't that happen over time?

Over the course of time, yes, however, the CO2 sets the process as back as far as possible and will give you several years of advantage as opposed to packaging the food with a normal atmosphere. To truely keep oxygen away from the food, you need those mylar bags. SorbentSystems sells them individually for about $3.xx dollars. If you plan to eat your food sometime in the next 5 years, I wouldn't worry about it though. I've eaten rice that I had stored for several years that way and it was just as good as new rice. What is at least as important is to keep the food stored cool. Anything below 70F is good and every 10 degree drop in temperature will double the shelf life of the food.

  And what type of business sells dry ice?  Would a grocery store?  Safeway or King Soopers (Citimart)?

Yes, I always got mine at grocery stores.


You want to use about 1/4 lb. of dry ice per 5 gallon bucket. Make sure that the dry ice does not accumulate frost on it when you put it in the bucket or you will bring moisture into the bucket. Put about an inch or so layer of food in the bucket first and have the rest of the food ready to dump in. Scrape the frost off the dry ice with a spoon or something first, then break it up into chunks and drop 1/4 lb. of the chunks into each bucket and fill up the rest of the bucket immediately so as to avoid more frost formation. Rest the lid firmmly on top of the bucket (but don't hammer the lid down) and let it outgas overnight. Then seal the lid. Remember to label and date the bucket.

[Ryder]

A nice heavy brown paper bag is just a convenient way to seperate your food from direct contact with plastic and that left over pickle juice. Maybe it just is a head trip so I feel better, kind of like how I bought a glass carboy for my water dispenser so I don't see that hard plastic 5 gallon container leaching who knows what into my drinking water. If you want to see wheat everywhere try dry iceing a 55 gallon removeable lid barrel and cork it off too soon....the lid will get blown off and launch wheat everywhere.

[Timber7]

I really enjoyed these vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pal88fR5COI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4zpLfOSfE&feature=related

[Average Joe]

If you have a Foodsaver, you could place the wheat in bags of a size you would use in a week, say 5 pounds, add an oxygen absorber for good measure, and then evacuate and seal them.  These bags could then be stacked in your 5 gallon bucket, sealed and the grain or beans should be good for an extended period of time.  Just pull the bags out one at a time as you need them.  If you want to seal and bury your 5 gallon buckets, you might put a bead of 50 year silicone caulking into the groove of the lid before sealing.  Then, if you bury the can, you've got 50 years to dig it up. By the way, the bags are resealable after use, if you have electricity that is.

[opsec]

The one drawback to the Foodsaver idea, is that the plastic that Foodsaver uses is gas permeable meaning that oxygen will get through to the food. The Foodsaver company didn't design their equipment for long term storage. They built it for relatively short term food preservation. Again, mylar is the way to go. BTW, I have used pieces of individual mylar bags to weld together smaller bags to hold smaller quantities of things like soup boulioun.

[Average Joe]

Thanks Opsec.  Looks like I need to order some mylar bags tonight.