My first $1000

[hancocs]

Just a question about canned food shelf life to anyone willing to answer.  Most cans have an expiration date on them, as does gallon jugs of water.  Would you adhere to those dates, or would you say that they'd be safe to eat/drink after the expiration date?

I agree with oscar615, but I not sure I would want to eat from a rusted can!! Anyway the general rule is that can food will keep good for 2 years, stored at 70 degrees or a little lower, after that you could still eat it, but it may lose some of its nutritional value. Here are coupl good websites that break it down
www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/348-960/348-960.html
www.y2kkitchen.com/html/can_code_decoden.html

[hancocs]

Thanks for all the info...and yes- I was serious.  I wasnt sure about storing water in the plastic containers before they degraded & had chemicals leaching into it.  Of course the water itself is 'fresh' but I was more asking about the containers... so thanks!

And, where does one find 55 gallon water storage jugs?  Is that the same thing that can be used to collect rain water?  those big blue containers??

In the past I have bought the 55 gal barrels from a Factory that made juices. At the time they were selling them for $10 each. The ones that had apple juice were the easiest to clean out. I wnet through the process of cleaning them out with a water, bleach and Hydrogen Peroxide. I did it the easy way and added Aerobic 07 ( water treatment ) that keeps the water good for 5years if tightly sealed. I think if you use bleach it is 3 tablespoons for 55 gal. Write the date to change your water on the outside of the barrel. You could also go on line and get 55 gal barrle new fro $65 - $80 bucks. I would check Craigs list to. Remember that barrel is going to weigh about 440lb after filled with water, so put it where you want to store it. You may want to pick up 5ga, 15gal for portablilty.

Another thing I would suggest is that you find a way of defending your food and water storage. You don't want to go to all that work and then have somebody come in and just take. Work out a self defense program for yourself. If you google alot of your question you will find a wealth of information on the internet. Hope this helps you out.

[opsec]

And, where does one find 55 gallon water storage jugs?  Is that the same thing that can be used to collect rain water?  those big blue containers??

Just do a google search on "water storage barrel". Sure you can use them to collect rain water, just make sure you have some kind of water filter to run the water through before drinking it. Yes, they are usually blue, but you can really use any 55 gallon drum that either you personally purchase new or that you know has been used only to hold food in the past.

Most cans have an expiration date on them, as does gallon jugs of water.  Would you adhere to those dates, or would you say that they'd be safe to eat/drink after the expiration date?

Those expiration dates only indicate when the food begins to deteriorate nutritionally. The food is entirely edible for many years. Realize also that it is in the financial best interest of the food companies to keep people consuming their products instead of saving them. They print a premature expiration date on there to keep production up. Canned foods are good for many years. I would be willing to eat a 10 year old can of Spaghetti-O's if the can itself was in pristine condition. Just watch out for dents and bulges in the cans. Even then the food isn't wasted, it just becomes bait for animal traps. The only canned food that I take the expiration date seriously on is canned fish. Fish does not store as well as other foods. Two years and it's out the door.

[Dame]

More on the grandma rule for eating foods with rust on the can.
She took the food out of the can and cleaned the inside of the can well, then looked for any indication of the rust having made it through the can.  Once there is any mark on the inside of the can the possibility of food storage goes way up.  She then boiled the contents for 10 full minutes if there was any indication or even suspicion about contamination or spoilage that was not identified by smell, can inspection or appearance.

[opsec]

Once there is any mark on the inside of the can the possibility of food storage spoilage goes way up.

[Publius]

Careful with this, because anything that can get Botulism or any other toxin, will not get destroyed by boiling or anything else. It's a toxin (poison) that was released by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. You might kill that by boiling, but the toxin is still present.

"Because of better canning processes, especially home canning or home processing of food, the number of yearly cases have dropped to about 1,000 worldwide. In the United States, an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported each year. Of these, nearly 25% of cases are food-borne, approximately 75% are infant botulism, and the remainder are wound botulism, which until recently was rare. Outbreaks of food-borne botulism involving two or more people are usually caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of food-borne and infant botulism has changed little in recent years."  http://www.medicinenet.com/botulism/page2.htm

This explains it well. http://missvickie.com/canning/canning%20errors.html

[Dame]

Thank you opsec, my system decided to hycup, and refuse to let me correct.
I agree with everyone on the canning issue.
My posts tend to be based on some really hard choises.  My actual Grandmother raised 11 children in the dust bowl during the Great Depression this way.  The choise was to take the risk or simply not eat.  With 13 of them to feed, most of them children, by their own labour higher risk behaviors were more acceptable within the circumstance.  Enough food to make it to the next crop year, entirely without outside assistance, within the material means they actually had was what they worked with.  Fortunately no one died of it, and my Father who grew up like that was the person at our house who inspected, with an actual magnifying glass and his very accute sence of smell all home canned goods.

I do not know how bad it will get, for whom and where this time.  Perhaps taking at least some of the risk associated with extreame hardship for some will be usefull.  I would not personally resort to such extreames outside of the higher risk likelihood of no food at all.