Time to discuss election aftermath

[Atash Hagmahani]

The US election is far from my heart. I just am not interested.

But I've put off thinking about it too long. Several editorialists I respect have pointed out that certain economic actions are likely to be tied to the election.

Usually in an election year, the central economic planners intentionally "pump" the economy. They create more money, to create a temporary boost in spending, which creates the illusion of prosperity. That is sort of an old "gentlemen's agreement" to keep the economy from being a debate topic. This much I have observed for myself.

This year, they have failed catastrophically. That was one of my first clues that we were in very serious trouble.

Even if they failed the "pump and dump", it seems as though after the election, some things that have been propped up will be let go, or contrarywise (as Alice in Wonderland would say), things that have been let go will be pumped up.

I think Dr. Willie mentioned the possibility of aggressively monetizing debt AFTER the election, so that the resulting price inflation would not impact the election itself.

Politics is my weak point. I don't know exactly what to expect.

I suggest keeping discussions non-partisan and courtious....don't make me fetch the cooling off smiley: . I promise you that both candidates are big spenders. I am not sure it matters at this point; unless something big happens, the current state of the economy is likely to decide the election, which is not rational (it's not like Obama can or would be of the right mind to fix it), but I think that is the rule of thumb. If I am wrong on that specific point, the greater issues of dams breaking still stands.

So what nasty surprises can we expect soon after the election?

[opsec]

I've never understood why the media tries to tell us that the president somehow has the power to determine the direction of the economy.

[Rusty Shackelford]

Someone posted this in another forum, and it explains it best:

"In 1964, they told me if I voted for Goldwater, I'd get drafted to fight his war in Southeast Asia.  They were right.  I did and I was."

I don't think it really matters.  I think we had a chance after 94, but the republicans really went off and blew the Contract with America - which was a co-opt of Ross Perot's platform.  Since then, the budget has been blown.

McCain, with the way he has run his campaign, has shown an ineptness that is just beyond me.  I think Obama is the Pied Piper.  Either way, I think the next President will do one thing no one thought was possible - be worse than the President before him.  I don't think that McCain has what it takes to put things back on keel and I haven't even seen where he has a viable plan.  With Obama, his numbers just don't add up and I think he's going to bust the budget further to "stop the recession."

[Publius]

For the first time since I turned 18 I'm not voting. I'm 44 so that's a few elections under my belt. This whole mess stinks. I'm not much for Socialism, but at the same time I know of too many dead from Iraq. My son in-law's brother has hit the closest to home. I drive by over 400 hundred trees every day that represent our losses in Operation Iraqi Freedom. What a freaking mess. My philosophies have changed quite a bit since I came back in. I know we are pawns, that the real powers that be don't care about. I want to rant and rave, but I wouldn't make much sense even to myself.

[Atash Hagmahani]

It's all water under the bridge, gentlemen (and lurking ladies...). The damage is done and we need to deal with it.

I recall one of the big neocons--I forget his name even as I can clearly picture his face!--claiming that Obama and McCain are identical on foreign policy. That is not surprising as foreign policy tends to be shaped by thinktanks, and is generally communicated by the Council on Foreign Relations (www.cfr.org).

If I am reading the situation correctly, they are likely to draw down troops in Iraq in order to move some of them to Afghanistan. I believe the objective is to simultaneously partially surround Iran, and to have troops near Pakistan, whose puppet government collapsed. These are guesses on my part; I do not have sources of intelligence on that matter, and furthermore there is a great deal of disinformation to sift through.

I keep wondering what it means when Obama is apparently favorable to drafting women, while claiming to be opposed to a draft. A Democratic administration would be more likely to institute a military draft, due to both historical precedent, and also because of the availability of a cover story of trying make "national service more egalitarian".

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/l2Vqkb_Eta0&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/l2Vqkb_Eta0&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cp069Y_P-9M&amp;color1=0xb1b1b1&amp;color2=0xcfcfcf&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/cp069Y_P-9M&amp;color1=0xb1b1b1&amp;color2=0xcfcfcf&amp;fs=1</a>

The possibility of a national service requirement--either in the military or in domestic servitude--is frightening. Nothing is "free"--time spent digging ditches or pulling weeds or whatever else they want us to do, is time not spent getting strategic skills or doing something productive.

There are some sections of the "bailout bill" that concern me. Several editorialists are interpreting them to mean that our bank accounts and brokerage accounts are fair game.

There is also a proposal making the rounds among House Democrats that I think needs to be kept an eye on. It has to do with abolishing the 401(k) plan--not a bad idea actually (the 401(k) was ill-conceived)--but replacing it with something worse--a mandatory participation in a government pension plan (Bride of Social Security?!) whereby everyone would be forced to contribute to a plan "invested" in the government.

... Under Ms. Ghilarducci's plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-
adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5% of
their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security
Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds
that would pay 3% a year, adjusted for inflation.
The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings
would be eliminated.

More on that on another thread.

[mantis308]

The possibility of a national service requirement--either in the military or in domestic servitude--is frightening.

My experience with foreign army troops is this: national service requirements should only be considered in the event of a foreign invasion on US soil. My conversations with Israeli, German and French troops have been about their national conscription. They've found that it demoralizes all troops and citizens to the extreme. It has generated apathy in their youth. Some of them alluded to conscripted soldiers have been more easily swayed toward Islam, and a few even suggested that the national sentiment was that they were training their future enemies.

I don't know if I buy that part, but I can't begin to imagine being in the harsh conditions of a deployment (combat or humanitarian, just as bad) with people who were angry for being forced to go.

[darkdwarf]

Two thoughts. First, as Americans lose jobs they can get jobs with the "Government" and they will be much easier to control. Second, how would this be structured? America is supposed to be a repulic where a citzen is free of the governmetal forms of 18th Century Europe. The only way it could be structured is fudalism. Just like the person who works for someone else. You have the Baron (CEO), Middle management sherrif, tax collector, secretary), farmers, and guards (Serfs) just like Europe of the middle age.

[MountainMeg]

Lurking lady here.  I'm absolutely dismayed that our choice has come down to these two.    That said, I believe that McCain would cause less damage.  To be honest, the threat of an Obama presidency **if** he gets a fillibuster proof congress and a few replacements on the Supreme Court absolutely terrifies me.  By himself, he's nothing but annoying.  With CONgress and the court behind him...     How long before the Civilian National Security Force (CNSF?) is tasked with reporting "unamerican behavior"?

[Atash Hagmahani]

Mountain Meg, it looks hopeless to me either way. McCain's outbursts alarm me. That is not presidential material. Some aspects of his personal life alarm me as well--he abandoned his first wife rather cruelly. Obama is known to be owned by the CFR--they hand-picked him AND his running mate (whom I'm not terribly fond of). They will set his agenda, and I suspect that they are thinking of some radical economic and regulatory changes.

If we do get a domestic military, then I would imagine that it would be low-key at first--and then maybe some sort of triggering event--say a domestic terrorist attack--and then it becomes entrenched and empowered.

[Rusty Shackelford]

I think the "domestic military" will start out more benign.  It will be the form of Job Corps or a revamped CCC.  Obama's stated and supported programs the require "volunteering" to do the things no body does or wants to do - clean up the streets, teach inner city kids.  They bring them in and provide them with a program that is based on their belief system and then send them out to "convert" the masses.

Once it's going, it's easy to expand.  Just think if we had a "cop" on every corner.  Wouldn't that help crime? 

[opsec]

This is just the next phase of implementation of the police state. In East Germany, the Stassi (secret police) had fully one third of the entire population spying on the other two thirds.

[mantis308]

I live on the south side of Oklahoma City, not quite in the city, but not in the country either. I work in downtown near the capitol, across the street from a low income neighborhood, and right next to a section 8 apartment complex. We've had some problems in the past from there...

There has been some loose talk considering the possibility for riots, since we are so close to the capitol, and not in the greatest neighborhood. We've also put together a disaster plan (years ago) and have trained on it.

It seems that no matter what happens, there is a possibility for rioting. Obama wins or loses, rioting is possible. I'm bringing my full bugout bag to work with me all week. I normally only carry extra stuff in case I get stranded or break down, this will be the full deal. Anyone else have any plans?

[liberty404]

Mantis
What's in a good 'bug out' bag?  Besides the following, which seem obvious to me:

spare comfortable walking shoes, extra socks
extra cloths, rainslicker,
small knapsack,
drinking water, no-preparation food
aspirin, common cold pills,
multiblade pocket knife, flashlight
some cash, dimes and quarters

[opsec]

Put whatever you think it might take to get you home to where your supplies are. Think "Road Warrior". Keep the gas tank full. Park tactically so you minimize your time from office to vehicle. Find several routes home. Keep a shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot + spare ammo concealed in the car, keep a pistol with you at work. Remember to take stairs, not elevators as you never know if the power is going to go out during a riot. A change of clothing would be a good idea as it would provide camoflage. Go to the restroom and ditch your 3 piece suit in favor of a pair of old work jeans, a pair of boots, t-shirt, and a beat up looking Carhartt jacket to blend in more with the locals and not look quite so much like a target.

[mantis308]

First, I work at a financial institution, and as much as I would like to carry a weapon around with me, it's strictly forbidden by rules and laws on every level. If I brought one to work with me, I'd be in jail for a long long time. I could bring one in my car, but I won't because I have no CCW permit.

My bugout bag contains (an actual bag that I carry when I'm feeling paranoid):
2 MREs, a few powerbars and 4 small bottles of water
loose fitting clothes for walking long distances, 3 pairs of socks, and walking shoes
rain gear (or winter gear if it's winter time)
work gloves
extra belt
towel
a spare cell phone with extra battery
a bottle of random OTC medication (ibuprophen (for muscle aches and general pain), diphenhydramine (for allergic reactions), a lot of loperamide (anti diarrhea) and a lot of dextromethorphan (for GE issues) and a few other smaller things)
a pocket knife
flashlight with extra batteries
$40 in small bills

My car has a emergency pack in it too:
Extra rain jacket, gloves, extra socks and a set of boots, the usual car trouble stuff. I also keep my billy club and a can of mace where I can get at them. I've maced myself several times (accidental to start, then more on purpose), and I've been through NBC training a few million times in the Army, so I'm fairly immune to the mace.

My biggest problem is I drive a new Civic hybrid, so that stands me way out in some of the neighborhoods I drive through. Maybe I should tape an Obama sticker to my car? LOL