Author Topic: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?  (Read 631 times)

Cheffie

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Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« on: October 29, 2008, 12:51:54 PM »
My husband wants to buy a lot of gasoline now that prices are lower and store them in containers. Are there any safe containers to do this in? How long does gasoline stay good for? I am just worried no matter what we store it in or were we store it, it will be a fire hazard, especially in summer heat.

Thanks, folks.

Cheffie

Rusty Shackelford

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 01:34:46 PM »
At Sam's Club here they are selling metal gas tanks with "gas station" type handles on them.  They're pretty pricey ~$90 for 15 gallons.  It's probably not practical to store to much, unless you're on a farm or rural area.  Then you can buy a 500 - 1000 gallon tank and have the fuel delivered.
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opsec

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 02:58:10 PM »
What state are you in first of all? Maine vs. Arizona makes a difference.
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Lady Lilya

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 03:06:52 PM »
My father had an idea to bury a large tank underground, hoping that would be safer.  I don't know if he will really do that.

I just called him.  He says gasoline has about a 3 month life, because of the additives deteriorating.  Stabil is a product you can add that will extend that to about a year.
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Dame

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 04:38:24 PM »
Look up Amsoil in your local telephone book or perhaps on line.  These guys can give you the specs on addatives, how much, how often, when and what sort of life you can get under what conditions for both gas and diesel.  There are also diferences in both products according to temperature when it is used and high temp fuels don't work when the temp. is to low and low temp will not work when the temp is to high.  Amsoil also makes products to lubricate motors etc that will give extended drain or hyperextended intervals without compromising lubrication.  Amsoil is a family business in Duluth, Minn.   

Condensation filters: Baldwin or Fram are two producers that make condensation filters.  A filter needs to be installed on each bulk tank to remove condensation before it gets to the motor.   Farm impliment dealers and bulk fuel supply agents sell or know where to buy bulk storage tanks as small as 50 gal capacity, along with the hoses and fill nosels and condensation filters and filter housings.  Underground tanks are illegal in many jurisdictions.

Enough gas/diesel on hand to get to where you plan to go and perhaps back might be a good idea; 1/2 tons will carry slip tanks that hold up to 150 gal. (eyebal est.) but this petro fuels do need to be rotated, and are highly flamable and even explosive so probably should not be stored in a building.  Inconspicuous and safe are pretty much mutually exclusive; and, even remote locations have theft problems.

Publius

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 05:43:53 PM »
Shelf life is a BIG factor. 6 months without an additive like Stabil. I don't know with. Someone mentioned the locale that this gas came from and someone else mentioned time of year it was bought. Both have valid points. If you look at a county by county map of the U.S. most of them have their own standards of the blend of gasoline they can sell. Gasoline is a blend of different hydrocarbons. High smog area demand different blends that low or no smog areas don't. Time of year and location affect the volatility of the blends. Cold weather needs lighter blends, say more butane than a summer blend in the same area. With all of that said, this is for your sensitive electronically controlled, fuel injected auto, not you low tech carbureted gen set. Once those volatiles evaporate/condense out you still have a burnable liquid. In the old days varnishes were a big deal, they are what gummed up the lawnmower that you didn't drain the fuel out of for the winter. They are still there, but gasoline is way more refined and cleaner now, but still may present long term >1 year storage problems.

On safety. Liquid gasoline doesn't burn, the vapors that have mixed with oxygen does. A full tank is pretty safe. Now if it leaks, then what leaks out is a problem, or if you store gasoline in your garage and fire breaks out there, once the container bursts or is compromised then that will literally add fuel to the fire. Most of the time it won't explode like in the movies, but flare out. Not much difference if you are standing close by. Buried tanks would be a good way to go, except if they leak and you care about it getting it in the water table or the environment in general.

My dad and I were putting a new driveway in next to the house and our yard was mostly sand. About 30 feet down then blue clay. Well this was 1978 and we put two 400 gallon of those oval heating oil tanks in buried right up against the foundation with the fill tube sticking up out if the ground. Back filled them with sand and had the contractor do the pour. Filled them with gasoline. A couple years ago we got some out to see what was up. It was cruddy, but it burned. Not sure I would run it through a genset though. In retrospect, pretty dumb of us, but I claim being fourteen exempts me :laughing002:

Diesel has a longer storage life, about two years, and is less volatile. Burns, but it takes some doing. Rule of thumb. The more refinement it needs the harder to store for a long period of time.

Look at this thread we have going here. http://mutuallyassuredsurvival.com/smforums/index.php?topic=641.msg2201#msg2201 Merits of propane vs gasoline and diesel. This is to quote Ryder "The nice part about propane is that the fuel will store for a long long time." Forever really. It isn't a blend of hydrocarbons like diesel and gasoline it is only one hydrocarbon. It has three carbons with all of the covalent bonds taken up by hydrogen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Propane-2D-flat.png Read the wiki on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane. If you read the above thread you will notice I converted a Generac gasoline to tri-fuel. My house had natural gas, but before Y2K I had a 500 gallon propane tank installed. Yes they looked at me screwy, but that was piped to my generator and a vent free natural gas log in an antique open face fireplace. I had wood heat too.

The other thing one may want to think about is diesel, but instead of storing lots of petroleum diesel, make biodiesel. You could go to Tractor Supply or Orshelin's and get one of those big 1000 gallon stock tanks and go around to restaurants and collect their waste oil and store it in the tank. Make the fuel as needed. I won't go into the collection of WVO, please do the research, because if you just drive up to a grease bin and start pumping, you may end up in jail. Just a thought on the diesel. I'm biased :eatdrink004:
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 05:46:00 PM by Publius »

Publius

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 06:13:19 PM »
I was rooting through some of my saved sites on this and this guy says it best. Now he is selling this stuff and I don't know about it. Someone else may need to comment on this product, but his info on storage is solid.http://theepicenter.com/tow021799.html

Also root around his site. Good stuff. http://theepicenter.com/tipoweek.html

Cheffie

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 06:26:30 PM »
I live in Northwest Arkansas.

Ryder

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 09:13:02 PM »
In the past two years I have stored gas in 6 gallon plastic gas cans for 6 months and still had it run in a car...with a little spark knock under hard acceleration. I have stored gas in a 55 gallon steel oil barrel for one year and had it work in a carburated old Datsun pickup with the only noticeable effect that I had to change the fuel filter twice  in the 55 gallons. This was with no additives or preservitives. This is in montana where you can still have barrel of gas sitting out back. The test my friends use is if the barrel whooshes when you open the bung you still have good gas. I know this sounds kind of redkneck but we actually store and use gas day in and day out. Most of my stored gas would be for a bug out vehical and maybe for a short term disaster. If times get really bad I don't plan on sitting around suburbia with my generator running watching videos.
Gotta learn how to knit socks and mittens if you want to survive in montana.

opsec

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 11:06:19 PM »
Ok. Reason I asked is that storage of gasoline would be impossible in places like Arizona and Nevada. Publius has a link up above that pretty much sums it up. I can only point you to one other resource and that is a manual rotary pump for 55 gallon drums. Model numbers 690, 692, and 693 at this site will take you where you need to go: http://www.lyndist.com/drum_pumps/drum_pumps.htm


p.s. The natural shelf life of gasoline is rated in months. Stabil will only hold gasoline for about a year. By far the best product to use is PRI-G. PRI-G will preserve gasoline for several years. Incidentally, diesel will hold for a few years by itself, with PRI-D it will hold for up to 10 years, add algicide too. Propane is all but eternal. If the pharoah's had known about propane, they would surely have found a propane tank in the great pyramid at Giza.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:09:08 PM by opsec »
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

opsec

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2008, 11:12:31 PM »
Tip for dealing with water in the gas, I got this tip from a guy living in Alaska: Use a chamois cloth - it has to be chamois (about $8.00 at a hardware store) - and line a funnel with the chamois. Pour the gas from the can through the chamois lined funnel into your tank. The chamois will absorb water while letting gas or diesel pass through. When the chamois becomes completely saturated with water, it will not allow gas or diesel through. Swap another chamois and continue filling up. You'll save a lot of money on water filters.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

konomonose

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 03:14:28 AM »
Ok. Reason I asked is that storage of gasoline would be impossible in places like Arizona and Nevada. Publius has a link up above that pretty much sums it up. I can only point you to one other resource and that is a manual rotary pump for 55 gallon drums. Model numbers 690, 692, and 693 at this site will take you where you need to go: http://www.lyndist.com/drum_pumps/drum_pumps.htm


p.s. The natural shelf life of gasoline is rated in months. Stabil will only hold gasoline for about a year. By far the best product to use is PRI-G. PRI-G will preserve gasoline for several years. Incidentally, diesel will hold for a few years by itself, with PRI-D it will hold for up to 10 years, add algicide too. Propane is all but eternal. If the pharoah's had known about propane, they would surely have found a propane tank in the great pyramid at Giza.


Definitely on the PRI-G and -D------ hard to find locally, if you have a West Marine store they have it by the pint about25 bucks, but treats and restores/makes better than new 256 gallons. It is also available elsewhere like ready made resources, a great prep supplier in and of itself. google PRI-G for more. PRI = primary research institute, iirc Have seen quart bottles at, iirc, Rivers Marine out of Miami for about 27 plus shipping, does 512 gallons.


opsec

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Re: Gasoline storage- unsafe idea?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 05:29:57 AM »
http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/catalog/product_11052_PRIG_for_all_Gasolines.html

$24.94 for a quart size bottle of PRI-G. That's the lowest price I've found for those who are interested.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".