Gold and silver down hard today. YEEEE-HAW!

[silverseeds]

  Yeah nothing wrong with the zincs to. even just the metals value its worth about 2/3 of face at present.

   im just saying if you want a few handfuls of copper, its easily within anyones reach for a few bucks and under "spot"... I find it relaxing. Ive sorted 100 face of pennies a few times. I wouldnt invest large sums into pennies myself as some do. Im talking to the thought of those thinking having some copper might be good and have a budget. Kids find it fun to.

    You can get sorting machines for much less then 500. just depends how big you want it. still not worth it unless you have banks willing to get you masses of pennies and your selling them like some do.

     some i know DO think copper will be the new silver. I highly doubt it, but a few handfuls of copper cant hurt.

[Atash Hagmahani]

I will sort out pennies that I naturally accumulate, but will not bother going to the bank. I do like copper, though.

I have been wondering for a long time regarding the issue you brought up vis a vis Ann Barnhart's latest, Offdalip.

Some years ago there was a rumor that a big player in Germany took delivery on a gold contract that was underwater--in other words, they asked for delivery of a contract ABOVE the strike price, reputedly testing the waters.

That was back when gold was absurdly cheap, and tests like that are probably the reason that gold ever started its upward ascent. Had it stayed cheap, more folks would have taken delivery, and some would have demanded taking physical custody.

Barnhart is correct, all they give you is a stupid receipt. But, there is a process in place for taking physical custody. It is fairly long, complex, and expensive--you have to pay for something like Brinks security to pick it up.

But it can be done. Jim Sinclair posted all the steps one day, and it's probably worth a repost if I have time some time.

Not suggesting going through the commodities markets to buy metals--or anything else. Just speculating on what would happen if enough people did...

Gold is probably reasonably priced. I'm questioning other commodities.

[silverseeds]

  Feel free to erase this if it isnt appropriate...

  realcent.org is another forum Im on. Lots of penny sorters over there.

   Anyway, you can buy copper pennies from them under melt (illegal to melt of course, its being sold as if it was bullion) but over face value. In case anyone is interested. A few do it full time, others occasionally. Many members with good reputations.

[offdalip]

Silverseeds
I'm a gonna throw your penny idea upside down

When a SHTF occurrence takes place, will people flock to little copper pennies that are only
useful as barter medium ,  or will they pay a huge premium for something that is "shovel ready"
on a project that is contingent on their survival?
My suggestion is there will be a premium for wire or tubing post SHTF over straight pennies
needing to be melted and cast into forms

[silverseeds]

      I could never see copper pennies trading as a currency as some i know foresee wither. Certainly pipes or wires of size are more useful. but i couldnt myself find these at under melt prices, and pennies are certainly better then the 2 dollar copper rounds someone mentioned. especially under melt. Paying 32 bucks a pound for copper will always be a losing proposition. Its unlikely to be a collectors item either depending on what it is. Pennies are a good way into the copper market.

         Its an established mint and weight so many see it trading as currency, the pennies that is.  I doubt that. Heck i doubt silver and gold though retaining value would ever be traded as a common currency either. but pulling a few bucks of pennies out of circulation is cheap, and even buying it under melt could prove a solid albeit heavy hedge.

           

         

[offdalip]

Its an established mint and weight so many see it trading as currency, the pennies that is.  I doubt that. Heck i doubt silver and gold though retaining value would ever be traded as a common currency either. but pulling a few bucks of pennies out of circulation is cheap, and even buying it under melt could prove a solid albeit heavy hedge.

Sooo.

But even some 500 ounces of silver gets impossible to carry around at all ,,,, Try It.......
(and that isn't very much, barely $15,000)

I can't imagine 500 pounds of copper

I'll stick with 50 ounces of gold or platinum

[silverseeds]

 50 ounces of gold is well out of my league anyway. Doesnt matter if I can carry it. I do have some silver and gold, but most of it will be sold when I believe I can best use the capitol for strategic purposes I have in mind. With my wealth preservation being centered around being able to retain what i have and provide for my family and produce something of value for capitol building later.... i can do that now, but a few items would help. a pile of metal not so much. Im not wealthy enough I have that much to preserve. I need to retain. I just got a new home in a great spot and with a well. But with that is added debt.

 Im not a big copper hoarder or anything. I was just pointing out it can be had under melt if you want it, from an established mint. If your wanting copper its a good pick imo.

[offdalip]

yep......................................

I guess my point is $15,000

equals 10 ounces of gold

equals 500 ounces of silver

equals 73,300 ounces of copper

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and congrats on your new home 

[Eddie]

Eddie, it's good to diversify your metal holdings. Now consider this: around the turn of the 19th-20th centuries, a quarter was a day's wages for semi-skilled labor. In other words, if you owned a bag of what is now "junk silver", you could pay for 4000 man/days labor.

I still have my big bag of junk, but I doubt it's going to make me rich, let alone any other metal holdings I obtain. Now consider this: With the direction things are heading politically on a global scale, I believe more then likely pm's will be confiscated or taxed heavily upon re-sale. I still think it's better to have some then not and will help prolong ones wealth compared to someone who doesn't. But remember, WE AIN'T IN THE CLUB BROTHER.

[silverseeds]

and congrats on your new home 

thank you sir. 

Its in a great spot. Much cheaper then it would have been a few years ago. there were even offers of 9k, then 15k more right after I bought it, but the paperwork was already in progress. 

Probably one of the best moves Ive taken. although honestly Im nervous. if I mentioned its price some here might laugh at the paltry sum, but its a high amount to me. In fact I might not even sell the old place, in case for some reason we cant make the payments on the new place. No one could buy the old place with cash, and being an older mobile home no bank will finance, so id have to do a homeowners contract (or rent it). It wouldnt cover the payments of my current place so im hesitant to do it, in case I cant make it here for unforseen reasons. Other factors could force us back to the city as well. 

I couldnt pass up a place like this though. its in the perfect spot on many levels.

[Eddie]

Silverseeds,

Congrats too. Im in a similar situation as you with two more house payments left and then I might start looking for a cheap bug out camp somewhere, Im still weighing this one out in my mind if it's the right thing to do with so much uncertainty floating around.

and being an older mobile home no bank will finance,

This isn't entirely true. I bought my mobile home and lot with a land loan, so this is an option maybe, and if I recall, they didn't require twenty percent down, although I put a little more then that on it.
Hope your new place works out for you sounds like your happy with it. Your out in the desert of NM right?
Peace.

[Ryder]

http://www.msuextension.org/ruralliving/Dream/PDF/Homestead.pdf
Here is a link to the montana version of homestead classification. Mobile or stickbuilt home has a protection against creditors up to $250,00.00 . Just for the amount of equity you have in the home. Tax apprasial minus what you owe is the protected omount up to 250K. So if you own your place outright by all means investigate filing this form if it is available. Let's see my place is apprasied for taxes at about $80K and I only owe $120K  . So either I get reappraised so I pay taxes on 250K or they can take my house, sell it and I still owe a bunch. This law was put in effect during the last depression when folks were losing houses left and right....sometimes just for a few years back taxes. My small bag of silver dollars still is worth four months house payments even tho when I bought it in the 90's it was worth one house payment. Personaly I like the heft and feel of US silver dollars. It still "feels" like money.

[silverseeds]

Your out in the desert of NM right?

Im in the forests of new mexico actually. my new spot is somewhere between 7500-8000 feet. Its a forest at this elevation. Pinon, junipers and ponderosa pines, with pockets of oaks in the better spots, along with lots of currant bushes.

still semi desert of course, but if you know what to do the high desert is a great place to be imo.

[Eddie]

So if you own your place outright by all means investigate filing this form if it is available.

If you own your home outright why would someone need it? I didn't see any mention of it keeping the tax man off your back. Great idea for those who have come into a bind though.

Im in the forests of new mexico actually. my new spot is somewhere between 7500-8000 feet. Its a forest at this elevation. Pinon, junipers and ponderosa pines, with pockets of oaks in the better spots, along with lots of currant bushes.

still semi desert of course, but if you know what to do the high desert is a great place to be imo.

Sounds sweet buddy.....sweet!

[hippiechick]

The new place sounds great. I am happy for you!