Author Topic: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges  (Read 856 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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http://portagedailyregister.com/news/49a11bd6-a139-11dd-840c-001cc4c03286.html

It seems that's not the whole story (it seems it never is).

A teacher overheard one of the boy's siblings mention the swatting (it was apparently 2 swats, one on each "cheek") and reported it to social services. The boy was referred to a doctor, who reported "faint" bruising but no swelling or pain.

The boy, 12, was swatted for going somewhere he wasn't supposed to, and lying about it. He says that he was given chances to tell the truth and was punished after repeatedly lying, felt that he got what he deserved, that he loves his father, and does not want him to go to prison.

The pastor has EIGHT OTHER children to support. He could end up in prison for 3 years, and be fined $10,000.
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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 06:50:55 AM »
That's absolutely typical of the way the legal system is going.

Prosecuting parents for 'swatting' a naughty child, while real child abuse goes uncovered.   Why has a sense of reality and proportion been so clearly and widely thrown out of both law and government?

On a related note,  that Judge could very easily have stopped the case as 'Not being in the public interest to proceed'.  He is obviously a hack for whom the idea of law is blind following of dictats rather than the application of justice through law.

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 08:24:30 AM »
LIGHTHOUSE FAMILY MINISTRIES, 608-635-2572
N3522 HIGHWAY 51, POYNETTE WI 53955

I'll try to call later today, to see if they need some funds for legal support and/or to keep his family fed.
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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 08:41:09 AM »
I suppose we should be grateful the authorities haven't seized the other children. That seems to be their habit if no one is watching.

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 11:40:52 PM »
OK, folks, Pastor Barnett needs our help. He has contacted me and others seeking help. He did not expect the case to proceed, but it is, and he is facing possible prison time and fines.

Furthermore, his legal expenses are beyond his means to afford them.

I got an email from him this morning, but did not talk to him yet. I want to make sure he approves of anything that I do before I do it. I am thinking about the possibility of uploading a video onto youtube, to talk about what happened, and direct viewers to a webpage for more information, where I will post information and solicitations for donations. The indirection will be necessary to stay out of trouble with youtube.

I'll need your help to help Pastor Barnett.

More details as the plan takes shape.
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oscar615

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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 03:36:08 PM »
Not surprising.  They are actually teaching kids in school that their parents can't spank.  So watch out!  I had my oldest tell me that just a few weeks ago over this last "Holiday" break...  Luckily it is not illegal, yet, to spank were I live.
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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 06:05:30 PM »
This is a really sad situation. It will ruin a peice of these children. Though, I hope it will make their family stronger.

Children have been given too much of the wrong kind of power. 

When a seven year old (I know one) knows they can get you in trouble for spanking them, we have problems.

Quote
Prosecuting parents for 'swatting' a naughty child, while real child abuse goes uncovered.

This is very true. Very worrisome.

Quote
I'll need your help to help Pastor Barnett.

I do not have alot but I will do what I can to help. Keep us updated.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 06:07:38 PM by whatchaknow »

MountainMeg

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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 09:25:24 PM »
Atash, please let us know.  I've got a little set aside I can PayPal or mail.  This is absolutely absurd!  I truly think that schools went to heck in a handbasket when parents stopped spanking (not abuse, spanking).

I still remember the last time my dad laid a hand on me.  I was 16 and said something VERY uncomplimentary about his current wife and my stepmom.  He slapped my face and all I could think was "Yep, I sure had that coming..."

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Teacher reports pastor for spanking his son; pastor now faces charges
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 01:16:27 AM »
I'll try to get something written up for the media blitz by Monday, Jan 19th. I'll also try to do a Youtube video, but I won't wait for that to happen, but will go with whatever I have.

Thanks.
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MnJRutherford

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Is there any update on this issue?

Atash Hagmahani

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I dunno, but I could find out.

The birth of my baby daughter last year put the brakes on a lot of my activities. Now that the situation is stabilized a little (she still needs a lot of attention), I could at least follow up.
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MnJRutherford

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I found this article:

http://www.wiscnews.com/portagedailyregister/news/local/article_30d606be-445a-11df-9e02-001cc4c03286.html

It's all over (apparently) but the healing.  Interestingly, in this mornings bible study, reading Proverbs 11-15, discipline and results of being undisciplined were in focus.


Atash Hagmahani

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Personally I advocate a mutli-tiered approach whereby for most indiscretions, the punishment is no worse than ritual humiliation (standing in a corner for young children, grounding of some sort for teens, especially where they are forced to admit to their friends that they can't participate in an activity, because they are being punished for their behavior).

It turns out that that it's not the pain that does it, it's the emotions that get associated to the forbidden behavior. Strong emotions have a powerful effect on our habits. This is called (no pun intended) "bottom-up learning"--it means that the learning starts in a primitive, and highly reliable, part of our brain such as the limbic system (I think that's where the emotions are), and works its way UP to the highly advanced frontal lobe, which is rational but always loses when it's pitted against the lower parts of the brain.

Imagine for example that someone decides that she needs to lose some weight...and her sister has just showed up at her door with a present consisting of her very favorite freshly home-baked dessert.

Now, sister has to run along, but she drops off the dessert with an invitation to enjoy it, and leaves promptly to run some important errands.

At first, the would-be dieter thinks that she'll save it for her family, none of whom have the weight issue, for a treat after dinner. She sets it out on the table and puts a cover over it.

But she just CAN'T get her mind off that dessert! The more she tries to STOP thinking about it--the more she thinks about it.

Eventually, oh like bloody hell she's going to leave it alone! At first she thinks she'll just have "a bite". Before she knows it, she's eaten the whole darn thing!

What happened? Easy. Only her neocortex was on-board for NOT eating the dessert. The rest of her brain, which not only isn't rational, but doesn't really understand nuances like the differences between "good fats" and "bad fats", was determined to carry out the "must supply body with necessary calories" program. It was just doing its job!

The subconscious ALWAYS wins these tugs-of-war.

That's why just "talking about what happened" doesn't work, UNLESS there are strong emotions attached one way or another. You can talk a kid out of bad behavior, but only by talking to them in such a way that you associate strong, negative emotions to the behavior. Some folks are very good at this, and some aren't.

A typical teenaged boy isn't all that fragile, and he only got two swats, one on each "cheek". The pastor said they both cried over it. I would guess for the boy it was the shame of the experience more than anything else. For the pastor, it was probably feeling like he had to share an unpleasant experience when he would rather have shared a pleasant experience, but saw no alternative course of action.

As far as talking goes, it's important to use any talking that goes on to connect the strong emotion to the behavior.

This will never work:

"DO YOU WANT A SPANKING?! JUST LOOK WHAT YOU DID YOU NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY CHILD!"

The answer is "no". The parent has just emphasized that this is a contest of wills. And the parent has just told the child that (s)he is fundamentally "naughty", which does not suggest a change in behavior, or that one is even possible. It suggests, on the the contrary, that the child is fundamentally incorrigible.

I've heard this type of language many times; I think it's a fairly common mental habit. This works better:

"You need to go sit on the naughty-stool there facing the corner BECAUSE you pulled your sister's hair."

"WAH! WAH! I DON'T WANT TO SIT IN THE CORNER!" (stomps feet)

"THAT'S RIGHT, YOU DON'T want to sit in the corner, do you? So maybe next time you'll use your words to resolve your differences with your sister."

No more discussion. Disengage during the punishment; for some reason disengagement is actually MORE irritating to the child than negative attention. Parent calmly escorts or if necessary picks up and puts child on naughty stool, facing corner. No brutality necessary, but child soon realizes that clock does not start ticking until (s)he resigns self to sit and conform to the program. Clock starts over again all the way back to the beginning if (s)he gets off stool before parent gives explicit permission.

Oddly enough...

The reason physical punishment does not usually work--in fact, usually backfires--is because the child is associating it with parent losing her (his) temper, and not with the behavior.

This has been realized for some time by a certain "alternative psychology" crowd, but the mainstream missed it until a study came out that showed that while white American children who are physically punished tend to behave worse, Afroamerican children who receive physical punishment tend to behave BETTER.

Needless to say it created an uproar, and most of the mainstream community rejected it without consideration. But the mainstream community was failing to make the connection to what the difference was. When asked, the Afroamerican children connected the punishment with their behavior. "I got whupped for playing hooky from school". That's because the connection is widely-understood in their culture, and expected. If you ask the parents (or don't--it's not a secret) they are very up-front and unapologetic about it: "ya gotta whup 'em when they do bad stuff".

White parents are more likely to smack if and only if they lose their tempers. They usually try the talking approach first, which, as noted, does not usually work because they're not doing it correctly, and they eventually lose their tempers and start smacking. The child correctly observes that "I got smacked because Mom is in a bad mood."
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 11:44:07 AM by Atash Hagmahani »
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The Future

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where did u see this study?
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Atash Hagmahani

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It's mentioned in the book "Nutureshock".

"...For years, the work of Dodge and others had shown a correlation between the frequency of corporal punishment and the aggressiveness of children. Surely, out-of-control kids get spanked more, but the studies control for baseline behavior. The more a child is spanked, the more aggressive she becomes."

Me: Beware of the psycho-speak. "Aggressive" does not necessarily mean that the kid is a go-getter; more likely a euphemism for antisocial behavior towards others. Naughty behavior.

"However, those findings were based on studies of predominately Caucasian families (sic). In order to condemn corporal punishment as strongly as the research community wanted to, someone needed to replicate the results in other ethnic populations--particularly African Americans"

Me: I have no idea why the author thinks that African Americans needed to be singled out. Probably for some political agenda within the psychobabble community. It's his opinion, not mine. I don't think there is any harm in doing the research, if the participants are willing, but I'm not sure what the author was trying to suggest here.

"When Dodge's team presented its findings at a conference, the data did not make people happy. This wasn't because blacks used corporal punishment more than white. (They did, but not by much.) Rather, Dodge's team had found a reverse correlation in black families--the more a child was spanked, the less aggressive the child over time."

Me: I don't like the wording of that last sentence. It sounds like an invitation for child-abuse. I understand what is meant but it's not worded right. It's disciplinary action, and not abusive beatings, that are meant, but this is not made clear.

"The spanked black kid was all around less likely to be in trouble.

Scholars publicly castigated Dodge's team saying its findings were racist and dangerous to report."

Me: a lot of can of worms there. The point was not to advocate spanking Afroamerican children, and it doesn't help that the authors did not quite clarify the situation precisely. The original point was to try to reproduce results of other studies that had been done on white families. The researchers were unable to reproduce the results they expected.

The text goes on to offer an explanation, which is in partial agreement to my own, but I offered my own instead in part based on my own background knowledge of shall we say "alternative psychology". I'm not an expert, but I know what works with kids and what does not, and what the failure pattern is. I've seen it with my own eyes, and seen the results.
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