Author Topic: Social proof story  (Read 503 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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Social proof story
« on: May 28, 2011, 11:38:05 PM »
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-how-%E2%80%9Csocial-proof%E2%80%9D-helps-smart-investors

I think that here we have an unusually high concentration of folks who have unusually low susceptibility to social proof. It's worth understanding the concept though: people have a tendency to believe what they think other people believe.

In the Kitty Genovese scenario, nobody does anything because everybody waits for someone else to do something, before acting.

If one hero will act, then others will join in. If someone would have gone after Moser (the attacker), probably some other guys would have as well. In fact, that's how you get mobs and riots; that's the other side of the coin. When people see other people misbehaving, they think it's not only "OK" but cool to do what they see other people doing.

The Kitty Genovese incident was not as bad as it's reputation; one man did do something--he yelled at the attacker to "leave that girl alone". She contributed to her own demise by running behind an apartment building, where the attacker finished her off, instead of staying on the busy street where there were witnesses. But she was probably confused and scared by the lack of help. In any case failure to act (and follow up) was not a matter of cowardice or "not wanting to get involved", as reported by a shocked editorial in the New York Times, but instead was a matter of "social proof", which is a strange but well-documented phenomenon.

The same thing happens when someone has a heart attack in public, or is otherwise suddenly stricken. People will walk past someone having a heart attack and try to ignore them, even if (s)he calls for help.

According to Cialdini, who wrote the book mentioned in the article, the correct way to avoid Kitty Genovese scenarios is to pick out one person--typically someone who looks like he might want to be a hero and might be sympathetic--to do something specific. "You in the blue shirt, come here, I need your help". If he doesn't respond, try someone else--but you should get a response the first time, actually, as long as you socially ENGAGE one specific person. Once that person responds, you're in business, and several other helpers might join in.

"Somebody help me" won't work.

On a much larger scale, and what the author is really alluding to, is that no matter how unusual or even dangerous an economic situation is, average people will NOT generally respond to it, if the mass media creates the impression that everything is business as usual.

THEY MIGHT PRIVATELY WORRY ABOUT IT, but if they don't see other people acting or commenting about the situation, they won't act either.

It's the same with disasters. People were incinerated at the Beverly Hills Nightclub because they saw other people remain at their seats even as the fire spread out of control. People were agitated and confused, but failed to act, because they did not see others reacting either.

The situation in the story sounds more like impromptu entertainment than social proof, actually. I suppose running for it was probably the right course of action under the circumstances but there were other ways to defuse the situation if he knew them. What he actually did accomplish is interesting in its own right: it's called a "pattern interrupt".

If someone is acting out an unconscious response--in this case, a rip-him-to-pieces mood--if you interrupt the execution of that response, it does a couple things. One is that your brain does not pick up where it left off. That's why the man broke off the attack--but then initiated a new one. It's a fairly bizarre effect. Dr. Milton Erickson who I think is the one who discovered it used to reach for another man's hand as if to shake hands, thereby activating the other man's handshake routine, but then instead of shaking it he would grab the hand and use it in an ideomotor demonstration that would leave the other man in a confused and suggestible state (for example, he might leave the man with his arm extended, not knowing what to do next, frozen in what's called a cataleptic state--I've seen this, it's odd...). I went looking on youtube for a demonstration, but unfortunately most of them are not very good: they're not utilizing the element of surprise which I think is a key to making the technique work.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 11:41:25 PM by Atash Hagmahani »
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offdalip

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 06:11:53 AM »
group think

herd mentality

That's one of the things that get people to believe in conspiracy theories of all kinds.

LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING
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MountainMeg

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 08:31:21 PM »
I've read about this and have used it to a much smaller extent when needing volunteers "now" to complete something at daughter's soccer.  It's something I point out to my kiddos when first aid or other emergency situations are discussed.

Eddie

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 10:04:34 PM »
group think

herd mentality

That's one of the things that get people to believe in conspiracy theories of all kinds.

LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING

Exactly. How many people never think twice about pledging allegiance to their country's flag in a stadium or whatever surrounded by hundreds of people?  Talk about peer pressure, it happened to me last Friday but I only stood up and didn't put my hand over my heart and do the pledge. Kinda chicken shit I know.

opsec

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 04:57:45 PM »
I wouldn't call that chicken shit necessarily. Picking the time a place of your battles shows prudence, not cowardice. At the stadium you were employing social camoflage which was the right thing to do since you were not in a time or place such that you could defend yourself.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 11:42:36 PM »
I agree with what Opsec said and would add that whatever the issue is--maybe it strikes you as idolatrous, or like a form of brainless political indoctrination, or whatever objection you might have--you can, with a clean conscious, go with the flow while interpreting your behavior in a way that is compatible with your values.

For example, instead of "saluting the flag" you might reasonably be "showing respect for the country by way of a proxy symbol". In that case, I would stand, put my hand over my heart, and smile respectfully, without reciting the words.

One problem with NOT going with the flow is that your intentions might be misinterpreted. You know..."WHAT ARE YOU, A COMMIE? A TERRORIST? A NAZI? A (fill in the blank)?".

Then the ideological position you were trying to take might actually backfire by association with something that was not your intention.
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silverseeds

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 08:46:00 AM »
group think

herd mentality

That's one of the things that get people to believe in conspiracy theories of all kinds.

LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING

Lack of critical thinking is also what enables many not to see the actual conspiracies all around us.... There is alot sides of that at present.

offdalip

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 10:00:08 AM »
lack of critical thinking is why people fall for obviously flawed conspiracy theories

birthers, thruthers, area 51ers etc etc
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silverseeds

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 10:26:56 AM »

   Oh I agree, was just making the distinction....

Eddie

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »
Quote
At the stadium you were employing social camoflage which was the right thing to do since you were not in a time or place such that you could defend yourself.

Yes, and I did notice that the guy standing to my right was basically just standing there too, not participating. Im sure there were others as well, and I suspect eventually as the country disinegrates more like minded people will come together causing devisions, refusing any loyalty to a government thats bent on taking the rights away from it's citizens. 

Eddie

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 11:55:01 AM »
Quote
One problem with NOT going with the flow is that your intentions might be misinterpreted. You know..."WHAT ARE YOU, A COMMIE? A TERRORIST? A NAZI? A (fill in the blank)?".

Then the ideological position you were trying to take might actually backfire by association with something that was not your intention.


It's defintetly a tough position to undertake, but people will be forced to make a choice wether or not it backfires right? I would rather make the right choice so as not to hurt my conscience. Accepting death on deaths terms is something I try and strive for. Think about all the people who joined the resistance in Nazi Germany, at the same time many were volunteering to become SS officers. 

opsec

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 02:37:56 PM »
Quote
One problem with NOT going with the flow is that your intentions might be misinterpreted. You know..."WHAT ARE YOU, A COMMIE? A TERRORIST? A NAZI? A (fill in the blank)?".

Then the ideological position you were trying to take might actually backfire by association with something that was not your intention.

...that's when I fall into a 1000 yard stare and in a very casual, apologetic tone, inform them that my case worker changed me from Welbutrine to Compazine and I'm still waiting for it to take effect.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Lady Lilya

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011, 09:30:45 AM »
LOL Opsec!
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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2011, 01:46:36 PM »
In that case, I would stand, put my hand over my heart, and smile respectfully, without reciting the words.
That's what I do.  That way I'm not sticking out, but I'm also not violating my conscience by reciting a pledge I don't believe in anymore.

Lady Lilya

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Re: Social proof story
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2011, 11:48:53 AM »
I've been doing that since elementary school. 
A strong woman won't let anyone get the better of her… But a woman of strength gives the best of herself to everyone.