If someone points gun at you, take it seriously.

[Ryder]

Having lived in the woods of Montana where everyone in the small local town knows of one another my wife and I always had a gun close at hand. Our main worry was strangers traveling thru or wildlife. I value the ability to have a choice when a bad situation arises. What if's don't count if people are getting hurt, permanetly disabled or dead.

[The Future]

Bringing the topic at hand back home, the issue I had was with the idea of each person "maintaining the attitude" of "have[ing] a plan to kill every person you meet".

1. Has anyone here ever [justifiably of course] killed a person?  Real life is a lot different cookbook recipes for what to do when X happens.  Is this "plan to kill" really fantasy?

2. Reaistically, formulating a "plan to kill" one person, never mind every person, seems untenable (pre-meditated?) and an unnecessary emotional burden.

3. I'm not averse to taking any necessary course of action as the moment dictates.  (See my 911 posting elsewhere on this board).  Life is too unpredictable to map out precise courses of actions in advance.  General ones, yes.  Plan to kill seems to specific...bordering on legally damning....but again, I am not saying folks should or should not carry guns (It isn't legal where I am but I personally wouldn't carry one even if it was legal).  The pre-emptive actions though...sounds like more trouble than the potential threat of trouble itself.

Deal with it as it comes.

[opsec]

Bringing the topic at hand back home, the issue I had was with the idea of each person "maintaining the attitude" of "have[ing] a plan to kill every person you meet".

1. Has anyone here ever [justifiably of course] killed a person?

 

No. But I have found myself in circumstances when I would have been.

Real life is a lot different cookbook recipes for what to do when X happens.  Is this "plan to kill" really fantasy?

Planning to defend yourself with lethal force is not the same concept as the premeditated murder that you appear to be thinking of. The fact that you don't seem to grasp the difference tells me that you can't be trusted with the responsibilities of being armed.

2. Reaistically, formulating a "plan to kill" one person, never mind every person, seems untenable (pre-meditated?) and an unnecessary emotional burden.

This was answered in previous posts.

3. I'm not averse to taking any necessary course of action as the moment dictates.  (See my 911 posting elsewhere on this board).  Life is too unpredictable to map out precise courses of actions in advance.  General ones, yes.  Plan to kill seems to specific...bordering on legally damning....but again, I am not saying folks should or should not carry guns (It isn't legal where I am but I personally wouldn't carry one even if it was legal).  The pre-emptive actions though...sounds like more trouble than the potential threat of trouble itself.

It sounds like you really are adverse to taking any necessary course of action. Thinking such courses of action through in advance is not damning in any way. In fact, it would be dumb not to when you are talking about the potential to end a human life. Planning to use lethal force is not the same a planning to commit murder. Just as fastening one's seat belt does not mean that one has planned to cause a car accident. Just for clarification, I only endorse the police's notable quote as it illustrates a viable survival  strategy, it in no way causes me to approve of the police's behavior towards the public which is a different thing entirely. Police and criminals both come up with methods of victimizing people that I can re-purpose and  use to defend myself from future victimization. It does not gall me in the least to take ideas from both of them.

Deal with it as it comes.

How do you plan to deal with "it" when you are unarmed? What if "it" is armed?

[Dame]

I have to believe that the differing opinions being expressed here are more directly related to the context of the individuals who hold them than some strange form of decent into irrationality.  When expressed outside of the context in which each of us lives there is at least apparent polorization.

One of my American Uncles (now deceased) would visit us here in Canada every summer.  He always carried a concealed weapon until he was about to cross into Canada.  When on this side of the boarder he would put it under the spare tire in his trunk along with the ammo. and there it would stay until he had crossed back across to the States.  He did not have a problem without his side arm while he was here; and, claimed he went nowhere without it when at home.  His last such trip was three years ago when he was in his 90's and the gun was in the car.  I asked him.

[darwinslair]

I really dont believe in being a victim.  Society needs victims to justify disarming the public at large.  If there is the real chance of there being a threat to your life, carry a weapon and dont give in to the demands of a criminal.  Take them out.  First.

Tom

[oldsoldier]

Bringing the topic at hand back home, the issue I had was with the idea of each person "maintaining the attitude" of "have[ing] a plan to kill every person you meet".

From what I read and I went back and re-read the original post. Nothing was said about a plan to kill EVERYONE they meet.

1. Has anyone here ever [justifiably of course] killed a person?  Real life is a lot different cookbook recipes for what to do wen X happens.  Is this "plan to kill" really fantasy?

Yes as I posted before I have. Have also be a military combat vet. who was engaged in emeny fire situations and won't say more even though different scenerios, same results, you must havr thr mindset to defend self and family.
 
stastically, formulating a "plan to kill" one person, never mind every person, seems untenable (pre-meditated?) and an unnecessary emotional burden.

Rather not having a defensive mindset IMO is more an emotional burden, The use of the term " pre-meditated" is again not the point here. Being pre -meditated means you plan out when, where and how your going to kill someone in specific. Agian not about killing everyone,


3. I'm not averse to taking any necessary course of action as the moment dictates.  (See my 911 posting elsewhere on this board).  Life is too unpredictable to map out precise courses of actions in advance.  General ones, yes.  Plan to kill seems to specific...bordering on legally damning....but again, I am not saying folks should or should not carry guns (It isn't legal where I am but I personally wouldn't carry one even if it was legal).  The pre-emptive actions though...sounds like more trouble than the potential threat of trouble itself.

I agree with the first lines here but again a defensive plan is just like a plan for what food to store, or what medical supplies you want to keep. Agian it's not about planning to kill, BUT planning to live. As I said before as the legal part. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. As for CCW personal choice you/we have to make. Pre-emptive planning?... You mean like deciding to store food, water so you will live? IMO same thing different means situation needed to live.

 
Deal with it as it comes.

That is exactly what we're talking about PREPAREDNESS to deal with it as it comes.  Spme of your points are good ones and I agree with. Many of your other posts are very good. However I mostly disagree here, which is fine. That's one of the wonderful things about this forum our ability to agree to disagree on some points.

Keep posting and sharing some great info, and have a great day.

[karch03]

What make you think that you can't do this and maintain that attitude at the same time? And what action do you plan on taking if you are disarmed?

What action do you plan on taking if on a visit to New York City? After all, you can't carry everywhere. Are you a Krav Maga enthusiast? (If so, I'll definitely cross the road when I see you coming.)

My brother trains in Krav Maga. He finds it more pratical then training in the MMA styles he was into such as ju jitsu and the like. I believe disarming handguns was one of his first classes.

[The Future]

Planning to defend yourself with lethal force is not the same concept as the premeditated murder that you appear to be thinking of. The fact that you don't seem to grasp the difference tells me that you can't be trusted with the responsibilities of being armed.

Don't twist my words.  The topic is self defense, in this case pre-meditated self defense. 

With you and I being strangers and some "plan to kill" being formulated if we met, I'm sure glad we aren't meeting!

Everyone lives their life based on a premise (or a number of them).  The outcome will make clear how valid or invalid that premise is.

[opsec]

Don't twist my words.  The topic is self defense, in this case pre-meditated self defense.

 

Ok. I won't twist your words, I will only quote them:

Real life is a lot different cookbook recipes for what to do when X happens.  Is this "plan to kill" really fantasy?

"Reaistically, formulating a "plan to kill" one person, never mind every person, seems untenable (pre-meditated?)

According to your words, pre-meditated self defense equates to an untenable, pre-meditated plan to kill. Nice use of scare quotes BTW.

[The Future]

to be clear, I'm not saying the plan itself is untenable.  I am questioning whether it is realistic to actually formulate a plan to kill every stranger you meet, every day for the rest of your life.  Seems a bit OTT.  But let's see how it works for you.

What is a scare quote?