Author Topic: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...  (Read 356 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« on: February 07, 2010, 12:10:28 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/05/incest.therapy.phillips/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Despite the unspoken assumptions of the article, it's not clear whether the incest ever happened. Her story has changed somewhat over time (although that doesn't mean it's not true; more likely, that her memory is faulty as is not unusual), and several people involved dispute her claims. Her father is dead so we can't ask him.

It doesn't help that she has reputedly had "mental health issues" not to mention drug addictions. Whether they actually had an incestuous relationship or not, her father did expose her to drugs. He was an addict, and probably pretty badly messed up himself.

Quote
By definition, incest is never consensual, although often the perpetrator will convince the victim otherwise, experts say.

That is a false statement. The free online dictionary defines it as "Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom," which includes consensual and peer incest (brother-sister). I believe that this article is relying on the widely-believed but untrue claim, spread by feminists, that father-daughter incest is common.

I wonder what they expect to accomplish with 5-7 years of psychotherapy? Other than giving her a victim complex?

This case would be a prime candidate to refer to competent hypnotherapy. Regardless what happened and what the consequences were, they could treat it, as well as the addictions. If she's out and out psychotic, that would take a specialist, and it's not clear how much they can do for that--the jury's still out on that one--but it least it wouldn't make her worse like some kinds of anti-psychotic drugs would.

I actually got some training on this general issue, using a case scenario that was analogous. You go through some hypnotic "rituals" to resolve the problems with the memories, and emotionally stabilize.
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wander

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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 11:44:50 PM »
I was under the impression that hypnosis was a voluntary act, that you can't "hypnotize" someone. Seemed like it had a placebo effect. Is that right?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 12:15:10 AM »
It's true that you can't "hypnotize someone". They do it to themselves! You just talk them through it. That's why nobody can be forced to be hypnotized...although if you're sneaky you can do it discretely enough they don't notice themselves slipping into trance (covert hypnosis). Actually, covert hypnosis is often easier than overt hypnosis, because if someone realizes that you are trying to hypnotize him, he is apt to interfere with the process even if he WANTS to be hypnotized.

The "placebo effect" is actually VERY interesting. You see, your brain has a lot of control over bodily functions. Sometimes slipping someone a placebo is enough to "communicate" to the unconscious parts of the brain that they need to do something to cause the desired effect. In other words, sometimes placebos actually cause the desired effect, simply because people have more indirect control over the unconscious parts of their brains than they realize (they just don't necessarily know how to consciously make it happen--which is where the placebo comes in), and the unconscious part of the brain has a lot of control over body functions. Remember the biofeedback experiments of the 1970s? Same thing, only without machines.

In that case--versus just placating a hypochondriac by giving them "medicine"--the placebo has a real effect.

Hypnosis can often do something similar, but without any deception and a lot more directly. You could, for example, raise or lower your own body temperature if you know how! Fakirs used to have a lot of tricks like that. One named Tara Bey used to do a trick involving blocking pain reception when his cheeks were stabbed--and he used to ask, before the demonstration, "bleeding, or no bleeding?". He could control the bleeding too.

Harry Houdini contributed to his untimely demise trying to prove that these self-hypnotic tricks were fakes. He tried the "water burial" trick, and died a few weeks later, probably weakened by the stunt. Hamid Bey then broke Houdini's record by a factor of two (he stayed underwater for 3 hours, twice as long as the 1.5 hours that did in Houdini).

What he was doing, of course, was going into a deep, cataleptic trance, and drastically reducing his metabolism, breathing, and probably even his body temperature.

In the case of hypnotherapy for emotional problems--well, guess what, emotions are regulated by the brain too, and they too can be manipulated. If someone has some sort of dysfunctional emotional reaction--say, because of a traumatic experience or life-episode, such as an incestuous relationship--yes, that can be fixed. Probably a lot faster than 5-7 years.

It works for most but not all addictive behaviors too. Smoking is really easy--that's why hypnosis clinics are popular for stop-smoking programs. Weight loss, too, if it doesn't involve a complicated medical issue. Alcohol is for some reason harder to treat, although a few specialists do. This is actually related to other subconscious regulation of body functions--hypnosis can treat some of the withdrawal symptoms--possibly even negate them.
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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 09:48:57 AM »
I think hypnotherapy and hypnosis and words carrying too much baggage....meditation (guided or unguided) might be more suited to where this seems to be going...

Speaking of loaded, here is a loaded question:

If someone has some sort of dysfunctional emotional reaction--say, because of a traumatic experience or life-episode, such as an incestuous relationship--yes, that can be fixed.

Are there any emotional reactions that are not dysfunctional?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 11:28:21 AM »
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Are there any emotional reactions that are not dysfunctional?

Yes. The whole point of emotions is to motivate you. People who have had brain-damage to the emotional centers of their brains are dysfunctional; they can't get anything done. They vacillate over choices. No kidding.

I would guess your concern is that they also cloud our judgment and filter our perceptions. I know a few tricks for dealing with them, one of them being a discipline known as "state management".
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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 05:19:05 PM »
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Are there any emotional reactions that are not dysfunctional?

Yes. The whole point of emotions is to motivate you. People who have had brain-damage to the emotional centers of their brains are dysfunctional; they can't get anything done. They vacillate over choices. No kidding.

I would guess your concern is that they also cloud our judgment and filter our perceptions. I know a few tricks for dealing with them, one of them being a discipline known as "state management".

Ok now that I have overtly baited the conversation....emotionss do represent a form of energy (e-motion as one wise man once said, alluding to movement) However, I don't see the whole point of emotions as motivational per se.  Properly utilized, I see them as supporting your will to do something - which by definition is free from emotion (or anything else for that matter - no pun intended).  Think about it - most of what you do all day every day is done without emotions motivating you to do it.  In fact, with careful observation, people quickly notice that the things they are motivated to do by emotions is bringing them harm.  Emotion is an engine.  Reason is suposed to be the driver I.e. that which dictates to the vehicle (body/mind) where and how to go. 

Vaccilation is not the absence of emotion but the absence of the will and thus too many conflicting emotions in controlling positions leaving one directionless.  Some of the most emotional people I know are vacillators....strong headed (willed) people are not...to a fault. Strong and wrong is the term that comes to mind.

That's my take but you still haven't answered my question: Are there any emotional reactions that are not dysfunctional? (maybe an example would help me get it).
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Lady Lilya

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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 10:57:04 AM »
I think it is a stretch to call ANY of them dysfunctional.
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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 12:30:18 PM »
maybe an example of how they are functional would shed light on your view
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 01:17:29 PM »
Future, you're asking a very broad question that is hard to answer without putting it into the context of what people would be like WITHOUT emotions.

I had a tenant who did have something wrong with him emotionally. He was working on a doctorate in theoretical physics, had an IQ probably somewhere around 180 or so...and only very rudimentary, weak emotions.

He could not keep his checkbook balanced. He could not find jobs. He did not have any real friends. He had no joy in life (luckily for him, no motive to end it either!).

The chap upstairs from him was maybe a year or two younger, and ran his own business that he started while still in school, had lots of friends, always paid his rent on time, courted women, etc.

The young man upstairs took the one down stairs "under his wing" for a while and helped him out. Helped him write a resume, find a job, etc. We loaned him some furniture. Otherwise, he was almost totally helpless.

I don't think he ever quite realized that something was seriously wrong with himself. It was more like "they don't appreciate my brilliance". He eventually ended up back in academia, which is the only place he felt at home.

Let's say that you have a job interview, and walk in the door sullen and disengaged. Not good. Now try it again full of the RIGHT emotions like ENTHUSIASM and CONFIDENCE. Those are empowering emotions in that context; that is your example of emotions that are NOT dysfunctional. In a different context, they might not be the right emotions. It's mapping the right emotions to the right context that is the key, and, furthermore, mapping those emotions to the right behaviors triggered by them. If a man walks into his bedroom and finds his wife with another man, murdering them both is not an appropriate response. But neither is being totally disengaged and not caring (which is precisely what might provoke the situation in the first place!). The problem was not the emotion, but the behavior (murder) that it was linked to as a trigger.

I don't think that "sheer will" exists separate from emotions. If you will to create a change, that will is based on a foundation of emotions, even if they are not activated at the very moment. Even we "Vulcan-like Aspies" DO have emotions--potentially rather strong ones--we are only lacking the neurology to express them and read them freely, accurately, and unconsciously like normal people do.
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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 02:37:06 PM »
Got it.  I'll add my 2 cents later.  Gotta go harvest/plant some food.
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Re: This would be a candidate to treat with hypnotherapy...
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 05:48:09 PM »
Ok.  The sentence that originally caught my attention was "If someone has some sort of dysfunctional emotional reaction--say, because of a traumatic experience or life-episode, such as an incestuous relationship--yes, that can be fixed."

Keying in on "dysfunctional emotional reaction" -

emotional: determined or actuated by emotion rather than reason
emotion: any strong feeling
dysfunctional:  failing to serve an adjustive purpose

I think we are clear that reaction speaks to response to some situation.  So a dysfunctional emotional reaction would be responding based on any strong feeling and not based on reason.  If we can agree that I don't own the definitions what an emotion is, and my thesis is just my take on what activities are taking place, I would say that the crux of the matter is not what people would be like without emotions but what would people be like without being controlled by emotions - a distinct difference.  Per my earlier comments, I see reason in its proper place as the driver and emotion as the engine.  Once emotion becomes the driver, reason is out the window and the results of being irrational is a common everyday event and I've never seen a benefit to being irrational.

Using "any strong feeling" as the definition of emotion, the job interview scenario doesn't work as described in that enthusiasm and confidence are not strong feelings per se.  In my understanding, we are speaking of emotion as a relatively rapidly changing feeling in response to an event.  There is no particular event in this case that stimulates a strong feeling.  The confident person is more or less constantly confident.  Same generally goes enthusiasm.  The enthusiastic people I know could be taking out the trash, washing dishes, watching a game...it doesn't require any "stimuli" at all.  It is their configuation (and a good one).

The "walk in on the wife" works better from an emotional point of view: Let's say the strong feeling that visits the person is anger and based on their receptivity to that they carry out an irrational act of violence without obvious consequences.  But you covered that already.  For that specific scenario, it would be useful for him to be "disengaged": he would incur no harm to himself or anyone else.  He could clearly reason as to what an appropriate response should be and take that course of action with any internal resistance.  As soon as he becomes emotional, reason by definition is out the window and the trouble that could have been avoided starts.  (That is to say, for this specific situation once he waked on on the wife, that part cannot be avoided)  Yes I know this is uncommon but look at the trouble the common has brought to the world.

So I am back to my original query - and that presumes you accept my proposition that emotions are not constant but strong feelings that are a reaction to an event - can we think of a situation where it would not be dysfunctional to act without reason (rationale) but based on a transitory strong feeling in response to an event?  The only emotion I can think of would be joy and even then, you better have a rational reason for that too.  Otherwise you might find yourself enjoying things that bring you harm (like that woman in the bed you describe).

So to summarise, I am saying emotions have their place and it should come based on a rational response to a given situation.  Any irrational response will bring harm to some degree, and anything that brings harm can't be considered natural.
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