Author Topic: Cucurbita ficifolia  (Read 4510 times)

Wellspring

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2009, 10:12:41 AM »
Update:

Well, my ficifolia is going on six months and I'm just seeing the appearance of the first flower buds.  Looks like it won't have time to fruit going into the cooler season here in Zone 9. 

I'll have to try once more next year and plant earlier in the year.  I started mine beginning of June:  to late in the year.  I also got hit a bit by spider mites which infested my beans and tomatoes big time.  They are very difficult to get rid of if you don't nip them in the bud right away and stay on top of organic spray application every week and cover the entire undersides of all leaves which requires lots of time.
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The Future

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2009, 10:23:32 AM »
6 months is a long time to first flower.  Especially when you consider this crop is alleged to be a cool season grower.  Hmm.  Well let's see how it fares as the weather cools further.  My first one died.  My second one is about 2 months old, relatively small and has no flowers.  Mind you my seminole pumpkin is 10 times the size and also has no open flowers (although I can see them making ready now).  Maybe this shark fin melon is best grown in spring under a tree or other shady area.  Although I have seen pictures of them in the open, a tangled field of vines on top of vines up to 5 ft tall....
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darwinslair

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2009, 10:32:27 PM »
I really think you guys should look and concentrate on what Native Americans cultivated in your areas a couple hundred years ago.

If you want to survive, go to real area specific types that have been true, tried, and tested.

Tom
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Wellspring

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2009, 07:51:53 AM »
Thanks Tom!
You're absolutely right.  I know Atash has mentioned numerous times the importance of  growing "area specific tried & true types."
My Yam Bean did wonderful.  Winged Beans and this ficifolia required way too much time and effort for no returns.
Dig within. Within is the wellspring of Good; and it is always ready to bubble up, if you just dig.         ~Marcus Aurelius

darwinslair

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2009, 08:06:46 AM »
We had, for here, a nearly non-existent summer.  I lost a lot of things to the snow and temps in the 20s a week ago.  However, the old area heirlooms I grew thrived in this odd weather we have had since last spring.

Good learning experience.

Tom
If you can catch it and kill it, or grow it, dont buy it.

wander

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2009, 11:18:13 AM »
Just for the record, I started this plant from a seed. It's my first baby...  :laughing002:

I planted in late June. I posted the sprouts in August. Here is the growth progress from August 22 and today. I'm going to be moving the pot indoors as soon as the temp is forecast to get to freezing, but it'll be a while yet here.

The ficifolia is sharing a pot with some sweet peas.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 11:20:08 AM by wander »
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The Future

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2009, 01:32:31 PM »
Interplanting legumes is a great idea, even in pots.  Some people go so far as to plant a legume in the same hole as other plants when seeding.  Keep us posted on how this plant does.  Mine is about 6 ft long now (wherea others are over 50ft) and I expect it to take off now that we are in the low 70s and high 60s at night.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2009, 01:24:02 AM »
I think it's OK to experiment--I do--but keep the experiments to what you can comfortably afford to have fail.

What I have learned is that Leguminous crops in my soil are vulnerable to Pythium. Many other plant families shrug it off, but Leguminaceae is vulnerable because they can not regrow crowns or tap roots after being damaged by the Pythium. It permanently stunts them.

This isn't true of the whole family. Lupines do great and spread on their own. Of course, they also happen to be native here.

Next year I will be experimenting with Sweet Lupines. But I will not rely on that crop, but instead will plant mostly potatoes, Brassicas, Alliums, and a few other types of crops that have performed. I suppose everything has been an experiment in my yard, and I keep the winners and evict the losers.
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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2009, 04:48:14 AM »
Lupine and Lupin are 2 different things?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2009, 09:12:42 PM »
"Lupin" and "Lupine" are alternate renderings of the name of the same genus, "Lupinus". The "us" is a Latin nominative ending un-needed in English, so it was dropped, but there were two different ideas regarding what to do with the ending of the word.

"Lupine" is the English word corresponding to the Latin word "lupinus" meaning "wolf-like". Why are Lupines "wolf-like"? Well, a long time ago it was noticed that they tend to live on barren lands, and it was assumed that they were ravenously sucking all the fertility out of the ground.

One of those cases of getting cause and effect backwards: Lupines live on naturally infertile land, because there they have the advantage over competitors, harboring, as they do, nitrogen-fixing bacteria in their roots.

Some people call them "loco weeds", because the poisonous alkaloids in their tissues will make grazing animals behave oddly.

You expressed some interest in the New World cultivated edible Lupine, Future, from the Andes. In the Old World, 3 species were cultivated for food, and like the Incas, the peoples of southern Europe and the Middle East leach out the poisons.

But in the 1920s, German breeders experimented with breeding the toxins out of the Lupines. I dunno if the whole plant is poison-free, or just the seeds (which is the only part humans are interested in). It would be ideal if the plant were toxic (to deter predators) while the seed were edible to humans.

They stopped growing them in Germany, apparently, perhaps due to cost issues, but they are now grown in France and especially in Australia. In Australia a fairly major crop.

They are ground into flour with which to enrich wheat flour for making pastries and breads. It significantly improves the amino acid balance, plus it adds some white soluble fiber that does not seem to impact the flour much. The protein content is not as high as soybeans, but it is higher than that of most other Legumes other than soy and winged beans. The carbohydrate content is lower than with other pulses. And they grow in much cooler (and potentially slightly drier) climates than soybeans can tolerate. They can be planted in the Autumn in Mediterranean climates, live over the winter as a cover crop to protect the soil and take advantage of the winter rains, bloom in the spring, and be harvested in the summer.

One problem worth mentioning: anyone allergic to peanuts is allergic to Lupine. About 2% of the population of Europe will keel over in anaphalactic shock if fed pastries with Lupine flour in them. It's already happened. And they haven't been printing warning labels on it. I dunno what the percentages are in other parts of the world, but peanut allergies are pretty common and are frequently deadly. I've heard of kids dying from eating a chocolate chip cookie that had a small amount of ground peanut to enhance the flavor. I know a friend of the family is extremely allergic. Always worried about feeding her and forgetting that there were a small amount of peanut in something.

I suppose one other warning: people keep confusing which ones are "sweet" and which are bitter. Plus, people from the Middle East and southern Europe are used to the bitter variety, sometimes grow them, and risk contaminating crops with bitter genes.  :shocked011: As a result, something else that has happened, is that buyers have bought bitter Lupines not realizing that there was a difference, ground them into flour, and given the consumers Lupine poisoning. If Lupine meal or seed is bitter, don't eat it (until and unless the toxins safely leached out).
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 09:15:50 PM by Atash Hagmahani »
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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2009, 05:23:34 AM »
Thanks.  The one I am interested in is pearl lupin although white and blue also look interesting.  Any idea on seed sources?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2009, 03:09:48 PM »
Mutabilis...had trouble remembering that name for some reason...

I don't know where to find that one.

I should have some other species in the near future. Not sure which other than Lupinus albus--"Lupinis" to Italians.

Lupinus angustifolius is the major Lupine crop in western Australia. In other parts of Australia they have a lot of Lupinus flavidus.
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Wellspring

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 11:25:37 PM »
Update~

My ficifolia is definitely daylight sensitive as it is now flowering.  In fact, I just assisted pollination the other day taking a male flower and kissing a female flower/fruit.  I'll take a picture tomorrow.  The plant started growing rapidly and profusely as the days got shorter.  It has grown about eight feet in the last three to four weeks.

Here's the best part:  we are in the low 40s at night and it's (for now) doing just fine.  I think it will be a miracle of sorts if this small golf ball size fruit actually reaches maturity.

Nevertheless, I'm thrilled with its beautiful large leaves and stunning flowers.

Here's a few pics of the leaves I took a few weeks ago.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2009, 12:29:04 AM »
Did a little investigating:

* Yes, they are USUALLY daylength-sensitive.
* They should start blooming earlier than that. Other folks in sunbelt states are getting fruit.
* Some strains reputedly day-neutral. However, I have no idea where to find them. I just find a few tantalizing references to them. I'm still searching.

* In your climate, it will probably be perennial. Maybe they'll bloom earlier next year, and give you fruit.
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Wellspring

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Re: Cucurbita ficifolia
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 10:26:21 AM »
Will be quite a discovery if it survives the Winter.

But back to what Tom said earlier in this thread:  If you want to survive, go to real area specific types that have been true, tried, and tested.

He's absolutely correct and I am doing this; however, it's fun and adventurous to play with a few select crops that aren't localized to see if they can become adapted and productive to a particular area.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 02:07:48 PM by Wellspring »
Dig within. Within is the wellspring of Good; and it is always ready to bubble up, if you just dig.         ~Marcus Aurelius

 

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