Author Topic: Information on vaccines  (Read 969 times)

darwinslair

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Information on vaccines
« on: April 16, 2009, 03:19:30 AM »
Perhaps more of a curiosity than anything else, but I like to know what is in something before it is incorporated into my, or my children's bodies.

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

Tom
If you can catch it and kill it, or grow it, dont buy it.

opsec

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 12:56:45 PM »
I think the benefits outweigh the consequences. I've gotten pretty much every vaccination available in the US. At the very least I would recommend that people (adults I mean) get a tetanus booster.
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

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Lady Lilya

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 03:48:36 PM »
I'm the exact opposite.  I don't even believe they work.  I've never seen any convincing evidence.  Similarly to how they do it with economic statistics, they changed the way they collected data at the same time they introduced vaccines.  If you look at data in the old format, there was no improvement. 
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opsec

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 09:14:18 PM »
Do you have a link?
"The difference between a pessimist and an optimist is that the pessimist usually has more information"

"Where law ends tyranny begins. Where law begins, tyranny becomes legal"

"Truth is hate to those that hate truth".

Ryder

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 09:31:48 PM »
I have to wonder why there is such a large increase now days in autism, adhd, diabetes, asma, amoung younger folks. Perhaps the numerous vaccines that are forced on tiny babies? My wifes son had no innoculations till he was 18 (because he was a very sick baby) must be why he is into foreign heavy metal music.
Big Pharma is totaly ruthless with pushing any drug that will make a profit. A case in point is zyprexa, it causes diabetes (bad thing) while keeping some people sane enough to stay out of lockdown mental hospitals (good thing). The makers payed off millions of dollars in lawsuits and still sell the drug. The point is they made so many millions that paying off a settlement was no big deal.
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The Future

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 12:20:42 PM »
I did quite a bit of research on vaccines before our first child.  Try to find a sane (I.e. non-hysterical) source and decide for yourself what is best.  There are many hysterical sources for and against.  Once I check vaccine by vaccine, there were none I considered worth the risk.  Even the new "mercury" free vaccines contain mercury.  Some say it is the mercury that causes them to "work".  However, I have never met a doctor willing to sign a document saying that my taking the vaccine, the disease will be avoided.  Or that it will even reduce the likelihood.  Of course, many who have had them get the disease.  I'm told rates of reduced infections in most cases were 90% or more off there highs prior to the various vaccines being invented.  Sort of eliminates vaccines as "the" reason if that is true.  I have seen some of the most ridiculous ratonalizations by supposedly educated doctors about why we need to take them, mercury and all.

One who is responsible to keeping my entire country up to date with the latest protocols, reasoned that the mercury in the shot was less than what you would ingest if you ate a can on tuna.  Therefore, by saying shots should not be used, folks are implying we should not eat tuna.  And surely they can't be saying that.

Before I could even stop laughing at this reverse engineering start with the answer you want and work back to the decision type thinking, the AMA and another large institution released a press release asking pregnant and breast feeding mothers to limit or avoid tuna altogether....duh.

Then again, that might be like telling a crackhead to avoid crack. Makes sense but they are just not in a space to follow that advice.
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The Future

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 02:46:22 PM »
Most adults don't get the vaccines they "need"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40555533/ns/health-cold_and_flu/

This article is loaded with loaded statements.  Who has defined the "need" for vaccines?  Where is the evidence of prevention?  It does make you wonder whether an individual write is championing the cause and unwittingly that of Big Pharma or it is just a front for them...
Wise selfishness is taking care of everyone else so that they don't bring harm to you.

Lady Lilya

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 09:56:40 AM »
Did you know that children now "need" a chicken pox vaccine to enter schools?  (Unless you have a state-granted exception form.) 
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Beeherder

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 04:23:18 PM »
as a young child it was horrible to see anyone get polio and though i had no direct experience with anyone who had it when i was young i did meet several adult survivors of polio, none of them fully recovered all died young. The advertising of that time made me believe that polio was common and almost likely so when the first injected polio vaccines were made available there was little or no hesitation reported. Literally everybody wanted the shot and got the shot, which was actually a series of three injections.

I am not aware that polio is any longer an issue in north america. Does that mean the polio epidemic was stopped by the vaccines?

Lady Lilya

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 06:36:18 PM »
Actually, no.  Data shows the vaccines actually dragged it out.  It was a live-virus vaccine at the time.  (The oral version given today is still live.)  In countries that didn't vaccinate, polio died out faster than in the US.  Polio rates were on the decline well before the vaccine came into being.

Not only that, but listen to this one:  remember that at around that time it was popular to remove the tonsils of everyone and his brother?  Well, apparently having one's tonsils out makes it much more likely to have a horrible case, with paralysis or death.

The Amish generally don't vaccinate, and also don't get polio (or autism).  But the health authorities have been making a big effort to persuade them to vaccinate, as I have been reading.  Some of them are starting to vaccinate. 

Part of the campaign to get them to vaccinate involved testing stool samples of Amish children, and discovering the polio virus.  The version that is in the oral vaccine.  In children who never knowingly had the vaccine.  Clearly they were given it unknowingly in order to create conditions to try to frighten the Amish into vaccinating. 
A strong woman won't let anyone get the better of her… But a woman of strength gives the best of herself to everyone.

Beeherder

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 07:00:04 PM »
in my example i was careful to say I had been persuaded by the advertising, after all i was under 10 years old when all that was happening. Not at all surprised to hear the the evidence is quite different than the advertised claim.

Also as a young member of a military family traveling overseas you were vaccinated for everything considered a possibility wherever you were going. So like Opsec i've been stuck for just about everything. And some of you are whispering, so that's why he's like that.

In this past year or few most of my beliefs in modern medicine have been challenged and some refuted, others still in review, but the record is not good. And the levels of deception and coercion being exposed are astounding even to someone as jaded as eye. And a part of that awakening is attributed to this website or referrals to the other websites of interest.

So maybe the answer is no one needs vaccinations??

could Max Gerson's assertion that nutrient deficiency and exposure to toxins are the causes of illness be true? If so then the path Dr. Mercola, The Future, and LL all seem to be advocating is a no loose option. Oh yeah its not free some effort and education, and probably some personal changes will be required but modern medicine is really only useful to fix trauma, access antibiotics, and access pain management meds. Did eye overlook something?
 

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 07:36:55 PM »
I'm going to take a middle stance:

It's not the mercury. It is unfortunate that the man who noticed that the Amish have lower rates of autism jumped to the conclusion that the reason was lack of exposure to thimerisol.

Sunshine levels are definitely related to incidents of autism. The fact that autism is twice as common in Western Washington than eastern Washington has to be accounted for. This fact also disproves the orthodoxy that autism is 100% genetic. There is no road sign on the highway pointing people with different genetic backgrounds in different directions!

The Amish by the way spend a lot of time outdoors, which does not prove the sunshine-lack-of-autism link, but is consistent with the hypothesis.

The hypothesis which seem most coherent to me are that vitamin D and the immunity system are linked to autism or lack thereof.

As for the efficacy of vaccines...I think one of the main problems is that they are government-enforced and government-regulated monopolies, that EXPLICITLY have IMMUNITY (no pun intended) from liability for causing illness or death. OTOH the vaccine manufacturers make huge amounts of money for their "mandated" vaccines.

The system is one of extreme moral hazard.
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Lady Lilya

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 08:00:30 AM »
I DO think it is note-worthy that children with heavy metal poisoning have symptoms almost identical to autism.  It is hard to say what proportion of cases that are labeled as autism are really a matter of toxins in the body, and how many are a deficiency in vitamin D, and how many are something else.

Re proving efficacy, if they really were effective it would be extremely easy to prove so once and for all.  A double-blind placebo-controlled study, with appropriate monitoring to ensure that there was no fraud.

It sticks out like a sore thumb that they never published this sort of study, which is considered by the whole scientific community as THE sort of study to do.  There is no good reason why they can't.  (Unlike something like comparing homebirth to hospital birth.  That couldn't be done double-blind, or even single-blind, because it would be impossible for both the patient and doctor not to be aware of their location.)

Instead, the sorts of studies they do are comparing one vaccine to another.  Or, vaccinating a population, exposing them to the disease, and seeing how many people catch it.  If 90% of people don't catch it, they consider it 90% effective.  But we don't know what percentage of people would have caught it if unvaccinated. 

Because they haven't done the correct sort of studies, the only info we have to go on is government statistics about the rates of diseases in different years.  If you look at that stuff, you see that all the "vaccine-preventable diseases" were steadily declining over decades, and the vaccines arrived last minute to take the credit.  The theory that makes more sense to me is that improvements in sanitation were the cause. 

Another fact that supports the sanitation theory is that in first-world countries the diseases disappeared at roughly the same rate, even if there was no vaccination for it.  While in third-world countries, the diseases lingered long after the vaccinations were made widely available. 
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Ryder

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 10:35:32 PM »
I have read that plumbers have saved more lives than doctors. Modern sanitation has played a big role. :think004:
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Dame

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Re: Information on vaccines
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2010, 12:10:05 AM »
I have read that plumbers have saved more lives than doctors. Modern sanitation has played a big role. :think004:

Chemicals are also a clean issue.  The general diminishing of those whose time and energies are spent on keeping things clean from the dishes to the garbage collectors, contributes to much of our current "issues".

 

anything