Author Topic: PR designed to encourage divorce  (Read 547 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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PR designed to encourage divorce
« on: August 27, 2008, 12:01:05 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/08/26/o.divorce.dreams/index.html

I'll post my own comments later. I found this disturbing for a number of reasons...

Quote
I contemplate divorce every day. It tugs on my sleeve each morning when my husband, Will, greets me in his chipper, smug morning-person voice, because after 16 years of waking up together, he still hasn't quite pieced out that I'm not viable before 10 a.m.

A Mid-Wife Crisis may be a simmering underbelly of resentment. It puts two hands on my forehead and mercilessly presses when he blurts out the exact wrong thing ("Are you excited for your surprise party next Tuesday?"); when he lies to avoid the fight ("What do you mean I left our apartment door open? I never even knew our apartment had a door!"); when he buttons his shirt and jacket into the wrong buttonholes, collars and seams unaligned like a vertical game of dominoes, with possibly a scrap of shirttail zippered into his fly.
...
Our mothers feared being left alone. We crave time alone. Alone time is the new heroin. ...

What are we doing here?

We were groomed to think bigger and better -- achievement was our birthright -- so it's small surprise that our marriages are more freighted. Marriage and its cruel cohort, fidelity, are a lot to expect from anyone, much less from swift-flying us. Would we agree to wear the same eyeshadow or eat in the same restaurant every day for a lifetime? Nay, cry the villagers, the echo answers nay. We believe in our superhood. We count on it.
...
I recently stood by as a clothing designer, a mother in her 40s, announced to a group of women that she was divorcing her husband. The women's faces flickered with curiosity, support, recognition, and -- could it be? -- yearning. Not a one of us suggested that she try harder to make it work. No voice murmured, "What a shame."

Because it isn't a shame. Divorce is no longer the shame that spits stain upon womanly merit. Conventional wisdom decrees that marriage takes work, but it doesn't take work, it is work. It's a job -- intermittently fulfilling and annoying, with not enough vacation days. Divorce is a job too (with even fewer vacation days). It's a matter of weighing your options.
...
To be sure, there will be throngs of angry women who will decry me for plunging a stake into the heart of holy matrimony. "My husband is my lifeline," I've heard said (and that's bad news for the aorta). "My husband and I never fight" is another marital chestnut -- again, bad news (not to mention a big fat lie), since according to the experts, the strongest relationships are the ones in which people can continually agree to disagree. "My husband is my best friend," others will aver.

 No. Your husband is not your best friend. Your best friend is your best friend. If your husband were your best friend, what would that make your best friend -- the dog? When a woman tells me that her husband is her best friend, what I hear is: I don't really have any friends.

 But if self-delusion is your particular poison, well, then that's fine too. Just make sure that when you phone your life-order in, you say, "One self-delusion, please," as opposed to "One perfect marriage." Fantasy, as we all know, doesn't deliver.
 Because in the end, that's basically what it's all about: getting your order right. Our day comes down to choices -- and it's finally dawning on the long-term wives of the world that divorce may be the last-standing woman's right to choose. We can admit that our marriages aren't lambent, lyrical ice-dancing routines and still decide to push on together to the final flying sit spin. We also realize that divorce is an alternative that's fully within reach, be it now or later or never. The more readily we acknowledge the solid utility of marriage (as one friend's husband put it, "I'm essentially a checkbook and a sperm bank -- but I'm okay with that!"), the more ably we can splinter the box of marital fantasy that makes us feel stuck, trapped, obliged. One eloquent swing of the ax and happiness is thrust firmly back into our own hands.

(Editor's note: someone showed extraordinarily poor judgment publishing what sounds oddly like a reference to a "Labris"--the double-edged battle-ax that lesbians and feminists often wear as a symbol of male castration, which the author would certainly be familiar with)

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Maybe one day, marriage -- like the human appendix, male nipples, or your pinky toes -- will become a vestigial structure that will, in a millennium or two, be obsolete. Our great-great-great-grandchildren's grandchildren will ask each other in passing, "Remember marriage? What was its function again? Was it that maladaptive organ that intermittently produced gastrointestinal antigens and sometimes got so inflamed that it painfully erupted?"

Yes. Yes it was.

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Kitteh

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 07:24:39 AM »
Yeah.  These women drive me nuts, but they can't destroy marriage all by their lonesome. 
http://nomarriage.com/

Men destroy marriage just as much as women do, and I don't really have a good solution.  My grandmother stayed with a man who beat her for twenty years, loving him perfectly, and one day he wound up killing her.  I'm happy to live in a time when I have the option of leaving an abusive man without the world viewing me as an immoral woman.  A very close female relative wound up with her leg broken because she married unwisely.  I can't be upset that she's not in the same position as my grandmother.  She can actually learn from her dumb mistake--she's not doomed to die from it.

My great grandmother (different side of the family) had a series of affairs so bad that most of her ten children were fathered by a man who was not her husband.  They hated each other and regularly threw things at one another and had knock-down drag-out fights in front of the children.  Mostly my psycho great grandmother's fault.  My g'grandfather would have been a lot better off if he would have gotten a divorce two months into the marriage when he found her in bed with another man. 

I have no wish to return to those times.

That being said, my husband is my best friend.  And I've gotten grief over it.  "You are so co-dependant!" said one friend because when my husband comes home from work, I want to go home and spend time with him.  Or "I worry he won't let you have any outside friends!" because after five hours at a friend's house, I call and see how he's doing.   I like him.  I like it when he is happy, and I enjoy spending time with him.  Heck, he's my favorite creature on this planet.  And they act like that's somehow unhealthy!

It would be one thing if these were people with healthy relationships.  But no, the people criticizing me are singles in their thirties and forties who for some strange reason can't maintain any personal relationship.  Or the one married couple who has been separated four different times.

It's like we are so focused on the cult of the individual that any love for another human being is seen as unhealthy.  We are encouraged to do away with any relationship that inconveniences us even in the slightest.  Now I am all for individualism.  Sometimes I feel like admitting that you actually like and need other people is like saying you have a horrible disease in our modern society.  Human beings traditionally need one another.  It's one of the beautiful things about us!  As long as you give back as much as you take, then there is nothing to be ashamed of.

I want a happy medium.  Part of me wonders if I can find it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 09:07:20 AM by Kitteh »

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 02:09:16 PM »
Quote
I'm happy to live in a time when I have the option of leaving an abusive man

That option has been around for a while in most jurisdictions, and that's not what the article is about ;-{) . Wife-beating and uxoricide have been illegal since antiquity....contrary to the "rule of thumb" hoax that claimed that Blackstone's law dictionary refers to a statutory right of husbands to beat their wives with a rod "no wider than his thumb".

A woman named Del Martin fabricated that claim in 1974. Later feminists embellished Martin's claim by stating that this was the origin of the expression "rule of thumb" (Martin had made no such claim, but had used "rule of thumb" that way herself, thereby giving her readers the impression that this was, indeed, the origin of the expression).

Blackstone's Dictionary of Common Law refers to no such sanctions. Martin invented it by twisting references for penalties for wife-beating.

What this article is about--and the reason that I find it disturbing--is that it refers to a very real trend my wife and I have seen. A lot of my wife's colleagues have been getting rid of husbands (and also young adult male offspring) over what seem to be trivial issues. Eventually it boils down to "she wants her freedom"--where "freedom" is defined in terms of lack of social responsibility.

I have never taken "Feminism" seriously, because I'm not stupid and am quite aware of its real origins, just as I am quite aware of the hoax nature of the "rule of thumb" story. "Betty Friedan" was essentially a hoax herself; the biography associated with "Betty Friedan" is total fiction. The real-life Betty Goldstein was not a suburban housewife, and did not raise her own kids; she had servants to perform both of those functions. She also had a career of her own choosing, writing for a communist-front radical labor tabloid and engaging herself in political activism.

It was her husband Carl's brilliant idea to come up with "Betty Friedan". He was an advertising exec and knew how to create false personas to sell a product by mimicry. (I corresponded with him briefly before his passing...).

Contrary to her claims of abuse, which she later recanted when Carl told his side, she was the physically abusive one:

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Quite vivid in my mind is a midnight in about 1967 - a year or so before Betty and I separated for good. We were living at our Dakota apartment then - Betty disagreed with something I said (that's all it took), went into one of her raging uncontrollable fits, screaming , her face twisted in hate and insane anger, "You (expletive) no good (expletive) you, you no-good bastard, you (explitive) bastard, " meanwhile sprinting into the kitchen. Back she came straight at me brandishing two large kitchen knives. "You (series of rather shocking expletives), I'm going to cut your (expletive) ("manhood") off - your big ("manhood") it doesn't mean a thing to me." At this I calmly picked up a kitchen chair, nailed her to the wall like a lion-tamer and took the knives away. And that was just a minor incident during that period when her explosive personality was further inflamed by amphetamines she was taking for weight loss, reinforced by alcohol.

Carl had a lot of stories like this one, that are too long to quote. They should sound quite familiar; they are the symptoms of someone with borderline personality disorder (which is rarely diagnosed), which does not seem to be at all rare. My sister-in-law has it, and so does the wife of a former friend of mine, our friendship having been destroyed by her elaborate deceptions. Both of them regularly throw things at people, threaten their husbands with castration, abuse the kids, etc. In addition to the violence there is typically one or more self-destructive risky behaviors, such as drugs, gambling, compulsive spending, ritual self-abuse (cutting themselves, burning themselves with cigarettes), dangerous sexual activities, etc.

The real-life Betty Goldstein was a Trotskyite activist; the rest was just a cover story for this:

Quote
The communist economy does away with the family. In the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat there is a transition to the single production plan and collective social consumption, and the family loses its significance as an economic unit. The external economic functions of the family disappear, and consumption ceases to be organised on an individual family basis; a network of social kitchens and canteens is established, and the making, mending and washing of clothes and other aspects of housework are integrated into the national economy. In the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat the family economic unit should be recognised as being, from the point of view of the national economy, not only useless but harmful. The family economic unit involves (a) the uneconomic expenditure of products and fuel on the part of small domestic economies, and (b) unproductive labour, especially by women, in the home - and is therefore in conflict with the interest of the workers' republic in a single economic plan and the expedient use of the labour force (including women).

Under the dictatorship of the proletariat then, the material and economic considerations in which the family was grounded cease to exist. The economic dependence of women on men and the role of the family in the care of the younger generation also disappear {day care centres, creches, public schools, etc}, as the communist elements in the workers' republic grow stronger. With the introduction of the obligation of all citizens to work, woman has a value in the national economy which is independent of her family and marital status. The economic subjugation of women in marriage and the family is done away with, and responsibility for the care of the children and their physical and spiritual education is assumed by the social collective. The family teaches and instils egoism, thus weakening the ties of the collective and hindering the construction of communism. However, in the new society relations between parents and children are freed from any element of material considerations and enter a new historic stage.

Once the family has been stripped of its economic functions and its responsibilities towards the younger generation and is no longer central to the existence of the woman, it has ceased to be a family. ...

{p. 227} Thus the workers' collective has to establish its attitude not to economic relationships but to the form of relationships between the sexes. What kind of relations between the sexes are in the best interests of the workers' collective? What form of relations would strengthen, not weaken, the collective in the transitional stage between capitalism and communism and would thus assist the construction of the new society? The laws and the morality that the workers' system is evolving are beginning to give an answer to this question.

Once relations between the sexes cease to perform the economic and social function of the former family, they are no longer the concern of the workers' collective. It is not the relationships between the sexes but the result - the child - that concerns the collective. The workers' state recognises its responsibility to provide for maternity, i.e. to guarantee the well-being of the woman and the child, but it does not recognise the couple as a legal unit separate from the workers' collective. The decrees on marriage issued by the workers' republic establishing the mutual rights of the married couple (the right to demand material support from the partner for yourself or the child), and thus giving legal encouragement to the separation of this unit and its interests from the general interests of the workers' social collective (the right of wives to be transferred to the town or village where their husbands are working), are survivals of the past; they contradict the interests of the collective and weaken its bonds, and should therefore be reviewed and changed.

The law ought to emphasise the interest of the workers' collective in maternity and eliminate the situation where the child is dependent on the relationship between its parents. The law of the workers' collective replaces the right of the parents, and the workers' collective keeps a close watch, in the interests of the unified economy and of present and future labour resources. In the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat there must, instead of marriage law, be regulation of the relationship of the government to maternity, of the relationship between mother and child and of the relationship between the mother and the workers' collective (i.e. legal norms must regulate the protection of female labour, the welfare of expectant and nursing mothers, the welfare of children and their social education). Legal norms must regulate the relationship between the mother and the socially educated child, and between the father and the child.

--Trotskyite activist Alexandra Kollontai

The Bolsheviks worked for the bankers--Das Kapital was all about creating monopolies on Kapital under the cover of abolishing them!!!  The immediate objectives were...

* To take away people's (INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY WOMEN'S) private social support networks, to make them more vulnerable to attack and more compliant to the orders of the state...
* To regulate demographics...
* To make women's economic contributions subject to taxation and regulation, and exchangeable only through the use of monopoly fiat money...
* To transfer women to the fields factories so as to intentionally displace men...
* ...to displace men from fields and factories to transfer them to the trenches, to carry out the Trotskyite "Permanent war for permanent revolution"

The neocons have profoundly Trotskyite roots (neoconservativism seems to be an amalgamation of right-wing Trotskyism combined with a really bad reading of Friedrich Nietzsche), which is one reason I regard them the same way I do commies. They talk about "values" but are at best strangely silent about, and more often than not actually supportive of, the damage their cousins on the Left did to family and community structures.

The problem is that there were reasons they were so successful. They tapped into a serendipitous wellspring that was just waiting to burst to the surface.

It is probably best-known by Virginia Wolf's reference to "a room of her own", which was about writing, but struck a lot of women as being true in general.

I believe that the sociologists, psychologists, and feminists had it 180 degrees backwards: it's not that women crave the autonomy that men ostensibly have and that they don't, but rather, that women have stronger needs for autonomy than men have!

In the "matriarchy belt" of Africa, women live alone or with small children in their own hut. I believe this is true of the tiny matriarchal minority in China, among the Mieu people. Extended families occur seemingly exclusively in agrarian-patriarchal societies, like Old China, India, and Iran. (Furthermore, the families are usually extended on the male line, so that the men are mostly related and the women mostly not).

What my wife is seeing is that a lot of her colleagues...

* Long before the divorce, they start expressing feelings of being overwhelmed, of not having enough personal time, of depression (often the post-partum kind), of wanting to run away, etc.
* If they get the personal time--such as personal vacations, party that husband wasn't invited to, personal activities that are usually family-oriented but she starts doing by herself--that is almost always a symptom that a divorce is imminent. My wife and I have both seen it ourselves, and it is now frequently cited on the "old boy network" that she's about to file.
* Initiate divorces for lifestyle reasons, citing "independence", not wanting to put up with someone else's personal habits, etc.
* Often express that their ex-husbands, who were shocked or "broadsided", "should have seen it coming".
* Might want boyfriends, but don't want to live with them or commit to anything (contrary to stereotypes claiming that it's the other way around).
* Promptly expel adult children, especially boys, regardless of whether he can support himself, regardless of actual opportunities, or their own failure to make sure that their offspring had marketable skills, and regardless if he actually has a job and contributes to rent and groceries. This by the way has turned into a very popular taunt: "still lives with his mother". In some cultures that would be considered normal!
* Frequently express the feeling that they are much happier now, and openly encourage their women friends to do the same.

The reason the editorial struck a chord is because I have been hearing very similar attitudes expressed among real women, not just public relations plants. This is certainly PR, but the thing is, it's working, because the audience is receptive.

These attitudes and choices have consequences that the women who engage in them do not realize. The vast majority of them will end up on the street in their old age, if they live that long. I will comment more later.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 02:31:23 PM by Atash Hagmahani »
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 02:18:16 PM »
Quote
A woman named Del Martin fabricated that claim in 1974. Later feminists embellished Martin's claim by stating that this was the origin of the expression "rule of thumb" (Martin had made no such claim, but had used "rule of thumb" that way herself, thereby giving her readers the impression that this was, indeed, the origin of the expression).

Blackstone's Dictionary of Common Law refers to no such sanctions. Martin invented it by twisting references for penalties for wife-beating.

Speaking of whom, she just passed away:

Quote
CNN Newswire
Lesbian activist Martin dead at 87
Posted: 03:37 PM ET

SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) — Lesbian activist Del Martin, at the forefront of the battle for same-sex marriage in California, died Wednesday in San Francisco. She was 87.

Martin’s partner of 55 years, Phyllis Lyon, was by her side at the UCSF hospice, the National Center for Lesbian Rights said. Martin and Lyon, 84, tied the knot on June 16 in a ceremony officiated by San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom.

Long before Massachusetts and then California legalized same-sex marriage, Lyon and Martin were integral parts of the early movement for lesbian and gay rights.

In 1955, they founded the nation’s first lesbian organization, the Daughters of Bilitis, and launched the first lesbian publication, The Ladder. Martin co-founded the Council on Religion and the Homosexual, and was also a founding member of several other organizations, including the Lesbian Mother’s Union, the San Francisco Women’s Centers and the Bay Area Women’s Coalition. She and Lyon were co-founders of the first gay political group in the United States, the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club, named for author Gertrude Stein’s long-time partner.
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Lady Lilya

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 03:27:55 PM »
Speaking of throwing away husbands for trivial reasons....

I remember noticing when I was a single teenager that my friends were throwing away boyfriends for reasons that seemed trivial to me.  I concluded at the time that they had seen too many movies that led them to believe that an acceptable man is one with no flaws or irritating habits whatsoever. 

I can't remember what the TV program was, but I guess it was a few years ago that I happened across something where the couple had a fight, and then later one of the 2 said something like "Is that it?  Our relationship is over now?"  The other said "No, it was just a fight.  That's not the end."  I thought that was good.  I guess that is why it stuck in my head.  None of the details is in my memory, just the gist. 

----

As for the rest of it, I'm glad you have something to say about it, because I find it too horrifying for words.
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Kitteh

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 06:05:21 PM »
Atash;

I'm a little concerned that you seem (to me at least.  I might not be understanding you) to be implying that abusive husbands never wound up killing their wives. 

This is simply not true.  I know of a case in my family.  Abusive wives kill their husbands too, I'm sure.  I pointed out a woman who certainly made her husband wish he was dead.  I didn't know any cases in the old system where the woman killed the man.  That's the only reason why I didn't bring one up.  I never said that men should be unafraid to leave abusive, castrating women.    They existed back then, and it was hard to leave them.

Abuse has always been here.  For both genders. 

And I know of a case (now at least) where a woman left her abusive husband and is alive.  That's a good thing.  Please revisit this.

Lady Lilya

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 06:28:24 PM »
I didn't take it that way at all.  I was under the impression that he meant that abuse of wives or killing wives was never as tolerated by society as they would like us to believe. 

The media always portrays the past as more intolerable.  <sarcasm> Thanks to the Party we now have all of this wonderful stuff in our lives.</sarcasm>  One would think that at every other place and time, everyone was suffering in horrible agony from the moment of their birth to the moment of their death.  But under that kind of strain, how would humans have thrived to the point of creating things like art and architecture and music and poetry?

It is just another method of keeping people invested in the system.  Without the system, supposedly, your neighbor will kill you and take your stuff, your husband will abuse you, etc.  All because there is no system hanging over them to keep them in line.
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opsec

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 07:47:14 PM »
I would never have been able to state this as eloquently as Atash, but this issue is one of the primary reasons that I am happily single. Even if I was financially well off and could afford it, I still would not get married simply because the women of my generation have become overtly predatory towards men. Friends have related stories to me of overhearing women in conversation actually telling each other how they plan to get married and then divorce him after they've drained him for all they can get out of him.

This pretty well sums it up:
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 08:41:40 PM by opsec »
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Kitteh

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 09:29:32 PM »
Lady Lilya;

I gathered that was what he was trying to say.  I was trying to get him to expand on his point because I wanted to make clear that I wasn't saying that abuse was easily tolerated in the past.  In other words, setting up a straw man and knocking it down.  Looking at his words from a certain light could easily give an impression that I was pretty sure he wasn't intending.  I was trying to get the both of us to truly read what the other was saying rather than follow the standard script.  I guess I should have included a smiley. 

Opsec;

I'm put in mind of some of the worst feminists I ever had the misfortune to deal with in college.

"Men today are horrible!  I heard one today talk about how he got his girlfriend to fight with her friends because they thought he should commit to her!  I'm never letting one near me!" 

And strangely, as they viewed the men around them with a growing hostility and wariness, their thoughts of men were confirmed time and time again.    It never occurred to them that they were deliberately limiting the pool of men available to them because the good ones ran in fear from the hostility radiating off of the feminists.  The only men available were either users and abusers or spineless passive-aggressive jerks.

These women were pathetic and they made me ashamed of my gender. :laughing002:

Atash Hagmahani

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Re: PR designed to encourage divorce
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 10:25:21 PM »
Kitteh, Lilya is reading me correctly. The problem with the "bad old days" was not so much legal as economic. Some women were trapped by being financially dependent on an abusive husband (and some were not. Give women credit for being resourceful). That's an issue I don't want to get into because for one thing there is a more pressing problem brewing.

Lilya's time-bias comment is quite apt. Some things are better now, and some are worse...but the main difference between say 300 years ago and today is not legal progress, or the contemporary government, but rather accumulation of productive resources. To put it more simply, we are far richer.

If and when that accumulation of productive resources starts unwinding, as I suspect it already is, then everybody will be in a lot of trouble, and a lot of ostensibly "progressive" policies will fall by the wayside as it turns into every man and woman for him/herself.

Never-married and divorced women will generally be in the most trouble.

Quote
the women of my generation have become overtly predatory towards men.

Remember that those who created this situation did it precisely to divide us against each other. They started with socioeconomic class (classic marxism), then pursued gender (3rd wave feminism), then race, then ages (the "generation gap"), then sexual orientation, etc.

This is called "difference-baiting".

I too feel bad for friends who got hurt, which is why I am all the more resolved to ignore their difference-baiting schemes, and furthermore, to defend marriage and family based on authenticity and mutual love and help.

Quote
Friends have related stories to me of overhearing women in conversation actually telling each other how they plan to get married and then divorce him after they've drained him for all they can get out of him.

Just like most men don't beat or murder their wives, most women don't prey on men, and especially not in such a premeditated fashion. The problem is not with women, but with "moral hazard" (an incentive to do the wrong thing).

For every bad apple there's a good woman whose value is "far above rubies" (ref. to Proverbs). I have been blessed with a faithful companion of almost 21 years.
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