Author Topic: Moringa  (Read 2779 times)

Atash Hagmahani

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Moringa
« on: August 17, 2008, 06:22:06 PM »
My avatar is me holding a Morina twig. Hard to see the Moringa leaves but some of you have seen a much larger version of the same picture.

http://www.echotech.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=301
http://www.echotech.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=302

Not something that you can grow north of the deep south of the USA, or in the subtropical parts of southern Europe, etc. But worth growing in parts of Australia and drier parts of tropical/subtropical South America.

I've tried it. Filipinos eat them--probably in salads--and so they are sold in a few stores here. Fresh they taste slightly and vaguely like horseradish, but not strong enough that the flavor should be a problem to most folks.

Indians (in India, not "Amerinds") chop them up to make mock-horseradish chutney. M. oleifera is native to India where it is a traditional food, and M. stenopetala is a relative from Africa that has been discovered to be similarly useful except even more drought-tolerant.

The wonder of this tree is that...

* it is extremely drought-resistant. The African version rarely bothers dropping its leaves through seasonal drought, though it can in severe drought. They have deep roots, and go dormant during drought.
* it is one of the few trees whose leaves are palatable and nutritious for humans
* the leaves are roughly 5.7% COMPLETE protein, which is very unusual for a leafy vegetable
* fresh but not dry leaves are rich in vitamin C. Dried leaves remain high in carotene and some B vitamins.
* therefor it provides a crop that does not have to be replanted every year, making it terribly useful for permaculture and low-energy farming
* the pods are edible and considered fairly succulent (tho there is a problem--to get the pods, you can't keep the trees chopped to a low, manageable height which is what is ideal for harvesting the leaves--otherwise you end up needing ladders to harvest anything...)
* The leaves can be preserved by drying. They are crushed and the powder consumed with water to provide protein and some vitamins for nursing mothers. One of their common names is "mother's best friend", although it is more commonly known as the "drumstick tree" for the edible pods.
* Crushed seeds are a source of machine or lamp oil that is supposed to be fairly easy to extract
* Crushed seeds have interesting property of clarifying water. It still has to be boiled at that point, but it renders highly muddy water more suitable for drinking.

I have seeds of both species sitting on my desk.

Here's a whole book on it in case the ECHO white papers aren't good enough:

http://echobooks.org/product_info.php?products_id=720



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Re: Moringa
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 07:33:45 PM »
I planted about 6 of these at the last new moon.  Good to know that if I want pods I will need to let them grow tall.  But how tall?  Ultimately these ones will need to be hedges but I need to get some seed first.  How long to first pod?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 11:22:18 PM »
Excellent choice of crops.

I found an online reference to year-old Moringas blooming but not fruiting. I would guess 2-3 years. They are typically about 20-35 feet tall fully grown. I have found references to a "bushy" variety PKM-I, but I don't know if that means shorter. I didn't find many hits about it on the internet--and some of them were written in Baha Malesia/Indonesia, which I can not read.

If and when you get the drumsticks let us know--I have seen them listed in Indian cookbooks as vegetable drumsticks and didn't realize until years later what the heck they were.

I wonder if you could grow Katuk. It's a lanky understory shrub, equatorial in origins but apparently somewhat tolerant of a bit cooler climates. It's supposed to be quite tasty. Needs more humidity than Moringa.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 05:24:16 PM »
I don't know how ancient Moringa is, but India and Africa share a number of plants because India broke off from Africa. India still even has a few obscure members of Proteaceae. There are also a few Gondwanic remnants of Asia--for example part of the Malay Penninsula is Gondwanic.

Moringa-eating seems definitely more culturally entrenched in India than anywhere else except maybe the Philipines, where the leaves are a common vegetable for the poor.

Moringas are sometimes grown seemingly as ornamentals in some tropical countries, without the locals realizing they are edible. However this might be changing as there are agencies dedicated to promoting Moringa as a crop in tropical countries, particularly among the poor. Crushed dried leaves mixed with potable water is a traditional food for nursing mothers, hence the common name in some countries "Mother's best friend".

If there were a Moringa eaten in Africa, I would guess it is a different species, like M. stenopetala. M. stenopetala has bigger, milder-tasting leaves, and has deep enough roots that sometimes it does not bother going deciduous during the dry season.
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 12:04:37 AM »
I asked the echobooks people what variety of moringa they have and they said it was the "day neutral" kind. Will that grow in northern lattitudes?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2008, 12:53:27 AM »
It will grow until it gets cold enough to kill it. The leaves are the main crop, so it doesn't matter too much whether it blooms or not. One big problem is that to get the drumsticks (the pods), which are supposed to be pretty good, you can't pollard them (cut them back severely to keep them short), which makes the leaves harder to harvest.

They actually tolerate a touch of frost, and are possibly as freeze-backs in places like Atlanta (which is fairly frosty in winter), but I would think it might rot up here, as our winters are so wet.

Definitely a "food-of-the-future" type crop in the tropics and even subtropics.
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 06:40:03 PM »
7 of the 9 I planted have come up.  I will let these bad boys grow for a full year and see what they do.  Ultimately I need to cut them back in their location but I need to pods first!  Then I'll make then into a hedge.  These will be my open secret food supply.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 07:51:37 PM »
Oh, by the way, I found a source for PKM1.

http://www.mutuallyassuredsurvival.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Mutually+Assured+Survival+Store

Click on "Vegetable Plants and Seeds", and then on tab #4 (sorry, doesn't seem to be a way to link straight to it), there is an entry for Drumstick tree seed packet. The seller is "India Seeds", and I would guess the proprietor would know if PKM1 is any shorter than regular versions.
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 07:31:31 AM »
Does anyone have books or further references on Morinda cultivation techniques?

This article indicates the "The tree produces seeds in the first year" and "Moringa trees that are grown as perennials for seed should be cut once to encourage branching and then allowed to produce seed plants". 

The same article talks about them being "grown like a vegetable, seeded two inches apart and cut back when it’s 2 feet tall. It will never produce seed in that case.”

So the question is, when to cut them to produce lots of branches and lots of seeds? 

I've heard of them growing a least 9 ft in the first year.  Is that your experience?
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 11:57:01 AM »
Attached is a cultural practices guide from the Asian Vegetable Research and Development Centre.  It indiactes a  number of interesting approaches including

- To encourage the development of many branches and pods within easy reach from the ground, prune the apical growing shoot when the tree is  1.0–2.0 m high.

- Another pruning strategy is to cut back each branch by 30 cm when it reaches 60 cm in length. This will produce a multi-branched shrub.

- If the tree is being grown for pod production, remove flowers during the first year. This will channel all of the young tree’s energy into  vegetative and root development

- Flowers and pods are normally produced during the second year of growth.

- Seeds remain viable for planting fortwo years
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 05:03:00 PM »
I just got my hands on some seed - direct from South Africa - of both the oleifera variety AND the stenopetala variety.  What is the major difference between the two?   I planted 10 stenopetala today.

Does anyone grow both?
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 06:12:34 PM »
Geographically, M. oleifera seems to be the one that Indians eat, and the one referred to as the source of the mysterious "vegetable drumsticks" mentioned in Indian cookbooks. I would guess that M. stenopetala produces "drumsticks" too.

M. stenopetala is the African species, from the highlands of tropical east Africa. Whereas M. oleifera has been consumed as food for a long time, someone (probably an Indian ex-pat in Africa) more recently noticed that the African version is also edible.

Functionally, M. oleifera has more strongly-flavored (like mild horseradish) leaves, that are used to make "mock horseradish chutney" in Tamil Nadu. Those of M. stenopetalum are said to be (never actually had them) milder in flavor. They also happen to be bigger. The leaves of M. oleifera are usually tiny. The flavor of the leaves only matters if you eat them raw (to get their vitamin C content); once cooked they are mild. To my taste, the leaves of M. oleifera do not seem to be strong enough to be unpleasant raw. I don't mind them in salads.

M. stenopetala is said to be more drought-resistant, and that it rarely loses its leaves unless in extreme drought. In time, M. oleifera becomes fairly drought-resistant once established, developing a fat "ghosted" trunk and looking almost caudiciform, if indeed it is grown in a dry climate--but it seems to adapt to humid monsoonal climates (where it is probably native) just fine.

Both of them tolerate mild but not heavy frost, and both can survive as freeze-backs where winters are short and the ground doesn't freeze. Moringa has been overwintered as far north as Atlanta as a freeze-back. I would think it worth trying throughout the Mediterranean basin, wherever frosts are short and mild.
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Re: Moringa
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 08:34:49 PM »
Got it.  Well I have both so in a year or so I can report back on the growth characteristics, taste, leaves etc.  I won't be digging out any roots any time soon though.  Too much like work.  I do also want to experiment with feeding them (and other plants) ocean based fertilizers to see what effect it has on the nutritional content.  I'm not sure where the data often quoted on their superior nutrition is sourced but like any other plant, as if it wasn't amazing enough already, perhaps there is some dormant talent just awiating the right mineral to bring out....With more than 10 of each tree in the ground, this gives me good scope to experiment.

I also want to create a thick hedge in another area.

Here is another link on cultivation techniques:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/r7750e/r7750e04.htm

Other uses include Nematocide, support for other plant climbers, cooking oil, cosmetics...


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Re: Moringa
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 07:04:30 PM »
The book I just read on Moringa indicates it can produce pods even kept to 5 - 6ft tall through pinching out the leader's growth when the plant is abut 3 ft tall.  Some are even growing it indoors in pots to avoid the seasonal death.  The listed benefits are quite lengthy.  I lost most of the ones I planted in October de to high winds.  More to go in now though.  Prior reference talk about a plant hitting 9 feet in the first year.  This book says 15 feet is not uncommon.  The book is short  I read it in 2 brief evening looks but useful.  Lots of recipe and references.
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Atash Hagmahani

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Re: Moringa
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 08:20:02 PM »
Interesting. I hope it does produce pods when coppiced, because I can't imagine going after the leaves or pods of a full-grown Moringa.

Be sure to sample the blossoms too--those are supposed to be fairly palatable. Judging from pictures it is a fairly attractive tree.

Does the book mention anything about the pods of the African moringa? I think I am more interested in that one, because of its greater drought-resistance and milder taste.
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